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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 10, 2013 20:40:32 GMT -6
Obviously they don't have to provide any of us with a justification, but if there were any type of a justification that they actually believed in, why wouldn't they just provide it?
Why would they let me take a member of their club to task for it at election time without just providing it?
Why would they let me say they were corrupt for not following our law, without just providing the justification?
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Post by northsider on Oct 10, 2013 20:51:31 GMT -6
Only you and the city knows what information you provide them. If you provide everyone on here the information you provided the city maybe we could explain it for you.
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Post by northsider on Oct 10, 2013 20:51:41 GMT -6
Only you and the city knows what information you provide them. If you provide everyone on here the information you provided the city maybe we could explain it for you.
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Post by northsider on Oct 10, 2013 21:01:04 GMT -6
Obviously they don't have to provide any of us with a justification, but if there were any type of a justification that they actually believed in, why wouldn't they just provide it? Why would they let me take a member of their club to task for it at election time without just providing it? Why would they let me say they were corrupt for not following our law, without just providing the justification? Maybe they realize that no matter what they tell you it wouldn't matter to you. They would be wrong and you would be right. The really funny part of your whole arguement is that if you had followed the proper procedure as spelled out in the zoning ordinance and requested a special use permit, they would have been required to give you a justification for denying your request. So if you want to complain about not getting a justification, you have nobody to blame except yourself. At some point it should start to sink in that maybe you were a big part of the problem with your project going nowhere.
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Post by dog on Oct 10, 2013 21:09:56 GMT -6
Obviously they don't have to provide any of us with a justification, but if there were any type of a justification that they actually believed in, why wouldn't they just provide it? Why would they let me take a member of their club to task for it at election time without just providing it? Why would they let me say they were corrupt for not following our law, without just providing the justification? I would say that the city council doesnt feel like getting in the mud and wrestling with you over the issue. You have said the issue is over, the investor isnt really interested in pursuing it. Since this particular business model seems to interest you alot, why dont you look towards the future and work with the city to have aquaponics and possibly other businesses that arent specifically listed in appendix A, added to the zoning ordinances, so if this situation comes up again, the issue will be cut and dry. You have your opinion that it should be in the CBD, others might think it should only fall into AG zoning, or an industrial zoning. It is a new type of business and differing opinions of it, make it somewhat controversial. Other than your time, I dont think there would be any fees for you to work with the city to amend their zoning ordinances. You say you want to help the city grow, bury the hatchet, and work with the city to make the process easier for the next guy. Be the bigger man.
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 10, 2013 22:01:24 GMT -6
The really funny part of your whole arguement is that if you had followed the proper procedure as spelled out in the zoning ordinance and requested a special use permit, Show me where it is spelled out in the ordinance that the proper procedure is to request a special use permit.
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 10, 2013 22:12:47 GMT -6
I would say that the city council doesnt feel like getting in the mud and wrestling with you over the issue. You have said the issue is over, the investor isnt really interested in pursuing it. Since this particular business model seems to interest you alot, why dont you look towards the future and work with the city to have aquaponics and possibly other businesses that arent specifically listed in appendix A, added to the zoning ordinances, so if this situation comes up again, the issue will be cut and dry. You have your opinion that it should be in the CBD, others might think it should only fall into AG zoning, or an industrial zoning. It is a new type of business and differing opinions of it, make it somewhat controversial. Other than your time, I dont think there would be any fees for you to work with the city to amend their zoning ordinances. You say you want to help the city grow, bury the hatchet, and work with the city to make the process easier for the next guy. Be the bigger man. I've said before that if our city gets a new administration that I would possibly try to do that. This administration has made it perfectly clear to me that they want nothing to do with it, so there is no sense in battling over it with them. After looking around I think there are plenty of locations with higher per capita retail sales figures, more traffic and an expressed acceptance of it. Just because I am not interested in trying to pursue it here though, does not negate my right to say that I still think it is wrong that a restriction was given that does not follow our laws.
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Post by northsider on Oct 10, 2013 22:29:47 GMT -6
The really funny part of your whole arguement is that if you had followed the proper procedure as spelled out in the zoning ordinance and requested a special use permit, Show me where it is spelled out in the ordinance that the proper procedure is to request a special use permit. Read it and figure it out for yourself. That's something you should have done a long time ago.
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 10, 2013 22:35:19 GMT -6
Show me where it is spelled out in the ordinance that the proper procedure is to request a special use permit. Read it and figure it out for yourself. That's something you should have done a long time ago. I did read it and it doesn't say that.
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Post by northsider on Oct 11, 2013 6:29:34 GMT -6
Read and understand section 17.32.030.
FYI according to section 17.30.010 C. M-1 is light manufacturing and M-2 is heavy manufacturing. Where exactly does it spell out industrial zoning in the ordinance?
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 11, 2013 10:29:58 GMT -6
Read and understand section 17.32.030. FYI according to section 17.30.010 C. M-1 is light manufacturing and M-2 is heavy manufacturing. Where exactly does it spell out industrial zoning in the ordinance? Now I do remember reading that. This is what it says: a special permit shall nevertheless be required if the administrator finds that the proposed use would have an extraordinary impact on neighboring properties or the general public So why wouldn't they just explain what the extraordinary impacts are and have me apply for a special use permit? I've asked others on here before to provide the impacts of Aquaponics on neighboring businesses and they couldn't. Since it doesn't say that they have to be negative impacts, how about these: People employed by the facility and people going there to spend their money would create extraordinarily more traffic on our empty sidewalks than the many vacant buildings in the area? or, This particular business owner could have extraordinarily more impact on the ability of certain businesses to over-serve their customers and allow them to pull their pants down and fight in the streets?
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 11, 2013 10:35:38 GMT -6
Since I have already done a lot of research, visited several Aquaponics facilities and talked to several industry experts, I know that there are no extraordinary impacts of it and that this part of the ordinance would apply to it being considered a greenhouse activity:
because the list of permissible uses set forth in Appendix A cannot be all inclusive, those uses that are listed shall be interpreted liberally to include other uses that have similar impacts to the listed uses.
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Post by hawk on Oct 11, 2013 11:37:20 GMT -6
Since I have already done a lot of research, visited several Aquaponics facilities and talked to several industry experts, I know that there are no extraordinary impacts of it and that this part of the ordinance would apply to it being considered a greenhouse activity: because the list of permissible uses set forth in Appendix A cannot be all inclusive, those uses that are listed shall be interpreted liberally to include other uses that have similar impacts to the listed uses. Were any of these facilities located in the CBD? If so, which ones?
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Post by northsider on Oct 11, 2013 11:59:11 GMT -6
What if some unethical business person (I'm not suggesting you because I don't think you would) opened an aquaponics store downtown and the business went belly up and they just walked away. Would tanks of dead fish be an extraordinary impact on neighboring businesses? I think after a few hot days it might. That may have been one of the concerns when the city requested you to locate the business in an "industrial " zone. There are a lot of questions that need to be addressed prior to approving aquaponics in my opinion. The issues may be easy to address but it would be up to you to address them in applying for a special use permit.
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 11, 2013 12:12:43 GMT -6
I didn't visit any facilities in communities that had near as many vacancies as we do.
In Pontiac it was approved in a retail area, with the back of the building butting up to a residential unit, across a street form a school and a hospice facility. They will allow it next to their homes, kids and dying people, but we won't allow it around our dying buildings.
Can you give me examples of communities that would only allow it in an industrial zone, preferably some that have as high of vacancy rates as here?
Are you saying that they have set their standards higher than an Aquaponics facility that could create jobs, tax revenue , and a use for a long time vacancy and also draw tourists for our downtown? What are they expecting will fill the empty buildings so the owners have income to improve them?
What industrial zone requiring use do you think they most closely related selling plants and fish to?
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