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Post by freedom12 on Sept 13, 2011 21:21:18 GMT -6
I will provide that response tomorrow Northsider, as it's past bedtime. Plus address many other problems with PM's articles. Til then, goodnite!
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Post by FZ on Sept 14, 2011 6:07:11 GMT -6
F12, I'm not on any "side", to me it's a matter of what probably happened and what probably didn't happen. That simple. You could say I am a real "Truther" in the literal sense of the word. ;D web.archive.org/web/20020601124916/http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/Commentary-Remembering_the_honored_dead.htmlin the release above, the relevant part about an engiine punching a 12 foot holee in the structure: On the inside wall of the second ring of the Pentagon, a nearly circular hole, about 12-feet wide, allows light to pour into the building from an internal service alley. An aircraft engine punched the hole out on its last flight after being broken loose from its moorings on the plane. as for that CNN reporter... AP at first reported a truck bomb. That was incorrect also. The evidence is overwhelming a plane hit the pentagon. If you claim otherwise, you should be able to show the evidence it did not. The gif. you linked to, looked to me, like something striking at high speed. All accounts and evidence point to the aircraft in question. IMO, that actually undermines your claims. Again, you need to look at all the evidence and information out there. The Truth is out there.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 15:55:13 GMT -6
Why aren't Americans demanding it be released? Why don't you author a proposal, petition Americans, and then find Congressional support to introduce it and pass it? You'll discover, even you can author legislation. Why couldn't US Special OPs, quietly/or not, locate and assassinate Osama in 2001? Do you really believe or think the US don't have the capabilities or that "we couldn't find him"? Why the wars, why the change in laws, why the creation of new departments, why the $$trillions$$ in expenditures? Why after 9/11 and in pursuit of Osama did we execute Sadam? None of it makes any sense, does it? You just can't see beyond your 9/11 nose. You may find some leads in Frontline's "Top Secret America". Spare me privy. A monster has been created and it's much bigger and more powerful than the POTUS and Congress. But if you think Americans can demand little tid bits about 9/11 from the monster . . . get typing. You might be thrown a bone.
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Post by freedom12 on Sept 14, 2011 16:34:34 GMT -6
My 9/11 nose? I assure you, I am more than competent to discuss a plethora of subjects.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 17:28:59 GMT -6
My 9/11 nose? I assure you, I am more than competent to discuss a plethora of subjects. SOL Patrons
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Post by freedom12 on Sept 14, 2011 17:46:52 GMT -6
Troll strikes again.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 17:57:13 GMT -6
How about posting the article you supposedly wrote and submitted to the Times on SOL? You can't...there never was an article.
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Post by freedom12 on Sept 14, 2011 18:00:28 GMT -6
If my posts bother you so much and are nonsense, WHY would you even respond?
Maybe you like the attention?
Or just like banging your head on a brick wall?
Does your life really suck that bad?
Maybe find a hobby?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 18:08:08 GMT -6
If my posts bother you so much and are nonsense, WHY would you even respond? Maybe you like the attention? Or just like banging your head on a brick wall? Does your life really suck that bad? Maybe find a hobby? Or maybe I just like exposing your bulls!t to this small faction of humanity. Uh huh.
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Post by freedom12 on Sept 14, 2011 18:14:36 GMT -6
?
Maybe you like the attention?
Or just like banging your head on a brick wall?
Does your life really suck that bad?
Maybe find a hobby?
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Post by freedom12 on Sept 14, 2011 18:49:53 GMT -6
Popular mechanics seemed convinced the hub was from a 757. The side by side pictures of the burnt hub and a wheel hub on a 757 looked like the same hub to me. What evidence do you have proving the wheel hub photographed at the pentagon is not from a 757? The PM article senior writer was a relative of Homeland Security director. They attempted to deny this. PM took on the "fringe" arguements that most doubters never argue. They also mistated facts. Example-PM claims that because the transponders were shut off, it was impossible to track the hijacked planes. Wrong. They also say it was impossible to because there were "thousands of radar blips" . Also wrong. Each ATC is responsible for his own sector, not thousands of planes. Planes are tracked by transponders and radar. The 4 hijacked planes would have been easy to spot BECAUSE their transponders were"supposedly" switched off. They would be the only planes on screen not squawking transponders codes.
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Post by northsider on Sept 14, 2011 19:31:56 GMT -6
Does the wheel hub look like one from a 757 to you freedom? If not, why?
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Post by freedom12 on Sept 14, 2011 20:01:59 GMT -6
It's been debated ad nauseum. The simple way to find out would be the part number stamped on it, but the government fights release of that info to this day as I have previously pointed out.
If they would simply show the video, there would be no more arguement from myself and many others on this. 4 frames is all we get!
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Post by northsider on Sept 14, 2011 20:22:16 GMT -6
Really, no more arguement? You wanted Obama's birth certificate so he gave it and that didnt stop the craziness, it only added to it. The government could release everything and the truthers wouldn't believe any of it at this point. Just to ask again, does it look like a 757 hub? It does to me
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Post by FZ on Sept 15, 2011 7:00:42 GMT -6
Popular mechanics seemed convinced the hub was from a 757. The side by side pictures of the burnt hub and a wheel hub on a 757 looked like the same hub to me. What evidence do you have proving the wheel hub photographed at the pentagon is not from a 757? The PM article senior writer was a relative of Homeland Security director. They attempted to deny this. PM took on the "fringe" arguements that most doubters never argue. They also mistated facts. Example-PM claims that because the transponders were shut off, it was impossible to track the hijacked planes. Wrong. They also say it was impossible to because there were "thousands of radar blips" . Also wrong.
Each ATC is responsible for his own sector, not thousands of planes. Planes are tracked by transponders and radar. The 4 hijacked planes would have been easy to spot BECAUSE their transponders were"supposedly" switched off. They would be the only planes on screen not squawking transponders codes. did they use the word impossible? I'm not sure I remember PM going on at length about this, but more likely part of another discussion. anyway, most sources agree that is the 'basic" truth, as you can quickly look up an overview of the reasons in wiki, which I quote below: The hijackers of the four planes switched off the transponders or changed their codes upon taking control, making it difficult to track them on radar. Northeast Air Defense Sector/NORAD personnel stated they had difficulty identifying and tracking the aircraft, though they were at times able to locate them: NEADS technicians spotted American Airlines flight 11 twenty miles north of Manhattan, just two or three minutes before it crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center.[4] “Looking at the general capitol area, one of the [NEADS] tracker techs thinks he spots the plane on radar.”[5] The 9/11 Commission Report: “Radar techs at NEADS/Rome are tracking Flight 77 near Washington, D.C.”[6] An Enhanced Traffic Management System (ETMS) hubsite, which generates and receives data to/from many remote sites, achieved full operation in September 1992.[7] Designed to be ETMS-interactive, the Standard Terminal Automation Replacement System (STARS) began in the early 1990s as a jointly-procured parallel-developed program of FAA and the Dept. of Defense. STARS is a fully digital system capable of displaying all aircraft using FAA and DoD surveillance systems within their defined airspace.[8] Even with loss of transponder-based secondary radar returns, aircraft can usually be tracked with long range primary radar through the use of repetitive triangulation iterations via multiple radars at precisely known distances, as used in the Joint Surveillance System. Real-time locating via transponders requires less computation. Multilateration, the process of locating aircraft based on the time difference of arrival (TDOA) of its transponder signal to three or more strategically placed receiver stations, was developed decades ago for the military. Because multilateration data is updated every second, targets move at a much smoother and more accurate progression.[9] However, as the transponders in three of the four hijacked aircraft were switched off, and the remaining aircraft had changed its transponder code twice, multilateration was of little use to the military for tracking the hijacked flights on 9/11, though the FAA, who had been monitoring the flights continuously since their departure, was able to track the planes at least some of the time after being hijacked. The FAA had difficulty relaying the current aircraft positions to NORAD/NEADS by phone, so even though they had access to the same radar data, NEADS was unable to locate most of the flights.What I read is, it was almost impossible to track the planes, but at times they were identified, but lost again. Problems relaying even the limited information to NORAD further hindered the effort to locate the flights at all.
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