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Post by oldtimer on Mar 29, 2014 16:42:44 GMT -6
Several make 80 thousand and more. Compare their educational background with the private sector and see if the 9 months a year comparison is valid. It looks like very well paid racket the teachers have now adays. The teachers can buy some very good cheese, with their "WHINE" at Kr*gers. Wow... you make it seem like being a teacher is a dream job. Are you a teacher? If not, why not become one? You seem to think highly of the pay and time off.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2014 5:56:09 GMT -6
Several make 80 thousand and more. Compare their educational background with the private sector and see if the 9 months a year comparison is valid. It looks like very well paid racket the teachers have now adays. The teachers can buy some very good cheese, with their "WHINE" at Kr*gers. Evaluating whether or not teachers are over-compensated has fueled the anti-teacher movement for decades. It seems to me that WHERE a person is teaching should factor highly into compensation. (Some places are cheaper to live than others, right?) A the present time, teacher contracts seem to reflect a cost of living increase and a "step" increase. I don't think there should be an automatic step increase. The step increase should reflect strict adherence to an evaluation instrument NOT predicated upon student performance - but upon guidelines that detail proof of school and community involvement, coverage of curriculum standards over the course of the year, and proof of a professional course or two taken at the teacher's expense over the course of a school year. The destruction of the American family and the incredible de-socialization of our children by the new societal and peer-group "norms" has presented teachers with students who can't read, write, or do math at levels that are considered acceptable anymore. Stop blaming teachers for our societal slide into the behavioral cesspool and hold them responsible for the things that ARE under their control. Teachers aren't the enemy and neither are the administrators. The abyss that has developed over the last few decades between administrators and teachers has been fueled by distrust, bad policies, and teacher unions, school board associations, and administrators looking after their own interests. The results? Look around you... the children are the big losers -ALWAYS.
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Post by job on Mar 30, 2014 13:01:00 GMT -6
I don’t have any quarrel with the comments above.
However, I would put our law makers near the top of any list of problem causers.
I spent most of my adult life in and around public schools: teacher, Demonstration Center Director and attorney. I have always felt that the national post-Sputnik angst was the beginning of serious problems in the public schools. An enormous flood of money suddenly became available to teachers and schools. Much of this money was not spent wisely.
When NDEA fellowships surfaced, for example, the University of Chicago offered up a year-long program on American History. Good idea, one of the best History Departments in the country providing a top program to improve the teaching of history! Instead of targeting the thousands of teachers who were teaching history with minimal qualifications, however, applicants had to have an MA in History to apply. The fellowships paid nearly as much as a typical teacher earned in those days. I spent a great year taking classes from guys like Daniel Boorstin, John Hope Franklin and Walter Johnson, but I was out of teaching in a few years. I have often wondered about some of the other fellows in the program. I suspect that most did not stay in the field of public education.
In addition to the numerous fellowships granted, legislators looked to the universities for guidance on how to teach. The “new math” was one of array of innovations suggested by professors of mathematics. The Illinois state legislature apparently concluded that the best way to handle societal problems was to require teachers to teach about them. Accordingly, the list of duties of teachers in the Illinois School Code began to grow: “[g]ot a problem? Tell the teachers to teach about it.” My favorite addition was when the Code was modified to require teachers to teach “values.” In the fullness of time, legislators came up with numerous other solutions, including the No Child Left Behind approach.
Legislators, and most people, have chosen to ignore the dozens of studies which show that students and schools excel when parents place a high value on education. Our son lives in Hinsdale, a town where schools are consistently rated near the top of all schools in the state. Although the schools in Hinsdale do hire very good teachers, the task of educating is helped somewhat by the high educational level of the parents in the district.
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Post by chevypower on Mar 30, 2014 22:41:02 GMT -6
I am with you Masked Man, Job has a good head on His shoulders.
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Post by job on Mar 31, 2014 6:42:17 GMT -6
Ralph Ganzer, a man who taught at SHS when I was in high school, showed up at one of our class reunions. He taught some of the basic math classes at SHS, but I always viewed him as a coach: wrestling, football and golf. In fact, he is in Western Illinois University's Hall of Fame. During one year at Western, he lettered in football, boxing, wrestling and golf.
After I finished up work on my MA, I began interviewing in Chicago suburban high schools. During an interview at one of the Maine Township high schools, the interviewer noted that I was from Streator. He asked me if I knew Ralph Ganzer and explained that they had been trying to hire him for several years. I said something like: "[w]hich sport do you want him to coach?" The guy looked at me and said: [w]e don't want him to coach; we want him to chair the Math Department. You knew that he has a PhD in Math from Northwestern, didn't you?"
Ganzer ended up as the chair of the Math Department at Northbrook High School. He introduced Advanced Placement courses in Math at Northbrook over 30 years ago. At our reunion, he told me that during his last year of teaching he had 33 students in his Advanced Placement Calculus class. Although he ended up teaching in a top high school in an affluent suburb, he told me that he had a number of students at SHS who were among the best he had ever taught. He said that he always felt that the parents of some of the top students he had at SHS were people who worked at Owens or Thatchers and stressed education to their kids. They didn't want their kids to end up having to do the hot, heavy work they were doing.
You don't have to be rich to value education.
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Post by Anonymous on Mar 31, 2014 7:44:54 GMT -6
After I finished up work on my MA, I began interviewing in Chicago suburban high schools. During an interview at one of the Maine Township high schools, the interviewer noted that I was from Streator. My dad was on the Board of Education at Maine East High School.
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Post by job on Mar 31, 2014 8:06:26 GMT -6
After I finished up work on my MA, I began interviewing in Chicago suburban high schools. During an interview at one of the Maine Township high schools, the interviewer noted that I was from Streator. My dad was on the Board of Education at Maine East High School. Gaston Freeman, basketball and baseball coach at SHS, ended up at one of the Maine high schools. www.mainewestalumni.org/CoachHOF/GFree.html Bob Goerne, SHS Hall of Fame athlete, also taught and coached at one of the Maine Schools.http://www.mainewestalumni.org/CoachHOF/RGoerne.html
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Post by willy on Mar 31, 2014 11:41:42 GMT -6
When Gaston Freeman left here he went to Maine West. I also had Ralph Ganzer and he was an excellent teacher. He and George Grisham were in the math department at SHS and both left about the time the teachers were forming their union in the mid sixties. Ralph went up to Maine West as well. I think Grisham went to the Bloomington area. Bob Goerne graduated from North Central in '63 and I think his first position was at Maine West, not sure, but I know he retired from there. Another SHS graduate, class of '63 is Mariann Guyon. She also taught and retired from Maine West. Not sure, but I kind of thought that Bob Goerne's sister Carol taught up in that area also.
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Post by dumdave on Mar 31, 2014 12:10:32 GMT -6
I took math classes from George Grisham. I thought maybe he went to IVCC. Several of my SHS teachers went there to teach in the late 60's.
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Post by job on Mar 31, 2014 13:00:15 GMT -6
I don't know when Ganzer left Streator, but I know why. He told me that the Board held an unsuccessful tax rate referendum. To "show" the community, the board eliminated the Ag program and some or all of the shop courses. Ralph made a presentation to the Board telling them that cutting ag and shop courses in a town like Streator was unwise to say the least. When they continued on "showing" the community, he left. Both Ralph and his wife liking living in Streator. Ralph grew up in a blue-collar town (Blue Island) somewhat similar to Streator and was very comfortable with the town.
When I introduced my wife to Ralph and his wife, my wife told Ganzer that I had been "afraid of him." I replied that anyone in their right mind was afraid of him. No one gave him any lip. In wrestling, I was having a hard time doing a standing switch properly. Ganzer put me in position so that he could execute a switch and said "this is what you are doing; you could break someone's shoulder that way." He then showed me how to execute the move properly. One night during football practice, he thought the defense was too soft and threatened to make some line plunges without pads.
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Post by willy on Mar 31, 2014 13:54:54 GMT -6
I never knew the story why Ralph left, but I know he was well liked. He always said there were 3 things he wanted us to remember. He met his wife on the golf course; Asquare + Bsquare = C square and I can't remember the 3rd. Job, help me out. I was horrible at math. He was hard and fair and what I learned I never forgot, just didn't learn a lot.
When you say he was tough I believe you. Before I got in HS I was told the story of how Ganzer wrestled Jerry Missel, who went to state, and beat him so fast is was funny. Missel was a heavyweight. Remember when the entire school would go into the auditorium for assemblies and the seniors always sat in the balcony? As a freshman we sat in the 1st rows and I looked up once and saw Ganzer grab a senior right out of his seat. I never, ever thought of acting up in his class after I saw that.
Dave, I'm not sure where Grisham went after Streator, but probably 25 years ago I saw him in Eastland Mall and he hadn't changed one bit. I went up and talked to him although I'd never had him for a teacher. He was such a polite man, in fact there aren't many teachers that I knew or had that I didn't like. As we got older, many became great friends. One that I'll never forget was Jack Stephens. I met him my freshman year and we became friends for life. He and Opal were the kindest of people.
Job, they tried that referendum, must have been my senior year in '63 and it failed. The next year the only sports were football, basketball and track.
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Post by job on Mar 31, 2014 14:19:35 GMT -6
I never knew the story why Ralph left, but I know he was well liked. He always said there were 3 things he wanted us to remember. He met his wife on the golf course; Asquare + Bsquare = C square and I can't remember the 3rd. Job, help me out. I was horrible at math. He was hard and fair and what I learned I never forgot, just didn't learn a lot. When you say he was tough I believe you. Before I got in HS I was told the story of how Ganzer wrestled Jerry Missel, who went to state, and beat him so fast is was funny. Missel was a heavyweight. Remember when the entire school would go into the auditorium for assemblies and the seniors always sat in the balcony? As a freshman we sat in the 1st rows and I looked up once and saw Ganzer grab a senior right out of his seat. I never, ever thought of acting up in his class after I saw that. Dave, I'm not sure where Grisham went after Streator, but probably 25 years ago I saw him in Eastland Mall and he hadn't changed one bit. I went up and talked to him although I'd never had him for a teacher. He was such a polite man, in fact there aren't many teachers that I knew or had that I didn't like. As we got older, many became great friends. One that I'll never forget was Jack Stephens. I met him my freshman year and we became friends for life. He and Opal were the kindest of people. Job, they tried that referendum, must have been my senior year in '63 and it failed. The next year the only sports were football, basketball and track. It was Ron, not Jerry Missel; Jerry wasn't a wrestler. He was a great football player and golfer, however. Jerry got his PhD from Princeton. At our class reunion, someone took a picture of Ganzer and the former wrestlers present. I posted it on our class website with the caption "Dumb Jocks." There were two PhDs, two MBAs and one JD in the photo. Not a former rich kid in the photo.
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Post by willy on Mar 31, 2014 14:54:13 GMT -6
Jerry is the Doctor, correct? I know he is charitable with his money and has funded a scholarship to be handed out in the spring. And the class of '59 gives one out also. Bob Goerne was sort of like a mentor to me. We went to the same church and his mom and dad used to take me to Bob's games. When I had to get glasses, I made sure they were black plastic frames, just like Bob's. He'd practice in the summer with us younger guys along with Al Wheatland. I think the world of both of them. Did you know Sampson and Wonders? They wrestled for Northwestern. And Sody went to state. That was a great group of wrestlers.
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Post by job on Mar 31, 2014 15:13:56 GMT -6
Jerry is the Doctor, correct? I know he is charitable with his money and has funded a scholarship to be handed out in the spring. And the class of '59 gives one out also. Bob Goerne was sort of like a mentor to me. We went to the same church and his mom and dad used to take me to Bob's games. When I had to get glasses, I made sure they were black plastic frames, just like Bob's. He'd practice in the summer with us younger guys along with Al Wheatland. I think the world of both of them. Did you know Sampson and Wonders? They wrestled for Northwestern. And Sody went to state. That was a great group of wrestlers. I know everyone you mentioned above. When Bob and I broke the school records in our respective events at District, Coach Lundberg slipped us some money and told us to "go buy yourselves some steaks." As you probably know, Bob set the high jump record at North Central and was all-conference in basketball. Al and I used to be in the same office building and would have drinks after work once in a while. I saw him the last time he was in Streator, and we have been recently exchanging e-mails. Not too many people know it, but Al was on two Big Ten championship teams during the same school year: football and golf. I had hoped that Jon Sampson and his wife would make it down to visit us in Florida this year, but that didn't happen. As you may know, Jon was inducted into the SHS Hall of Fame last year. When I was in college, I had a good friend (Deke Edwards) who was a blind wrestler. Because he wrestled Tom Wonder's weight, I warned Tom if they ever met not to tie up with Deke. I found out later that when they met in a tournament, Tom tied up with Deke; and Deke promptly took him down. The take down cost Tom the match.
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on Mar 31, 2014 15:38:01 GMT -6
Several make 80 thousand and more. Compare their educational background with the private sector and see if the 9 months a year comparison is valid. It looks like very well paid racket the teachers have now adays. The teachers can buy some very good cheese, with their "WHINE" at Kr*gers. It is not so much the salary of the educators, as others have said, they do not control the school calender year, and to pay them based upon the days worked would be folly, no one would work for X less a year simply because the work was not scheduled. The real killer here is the retirement system, and the lack of funding. When you retire, the concept that you need 76.8 percent of your 4 years highest salary is simply not sustainable, period. We could easily afford our school systems if we simply changed it to a 401K setup, where employee and employer equally contributed to their retirement, if a employee valued his retirement, he would hit it harder, if he felt he wanted to live high on the hog now, well, he would simply have to teach longer. Between that, and eliminating ridiculous Administration employment, we could have a sustainable school system. God forbid that happen though.
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