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Post by greekgod on Jul 24, 2011 15:55:42 GMT -6
Then expain, after going into almost $11 trillion in debt in 2008, what this country had to show for that debt other than a global economic collapse? Obama barely invested a trillion, and with that, we bought time to get our act together, saved our auto industry, provided opportunity to a secondary education to millions, began repairing our neglected and failing infrastructure, provided emergency unemployment benefits and assistance to billions affected by the collapse, provided health insurance to millions of children, began the process of providing affordable health insurance to all Americans so they can be responsible for their own health care, began making payments back to Social Security, invested into alternative energies, invested into American capitalists, took out master-mind of 9/11, inspired democracy around the world, repealed DADT, provided the recognition of equality to more Americans, and more. Continued intelligent investment into our country will stimulate capitalism and our economy, and, in return, we can begin to pay down our debt. Lets cut to the chase, shall we? Bush takes over, 5,727,776,738,304 and a few pennies. Bush LEAVES, 10,626,877,048,913. Almost 5 TRILLION added in 8 years. Wholly unacceptable, and we EXCORIATED him for it. We get the Messiah. Start 10,625,053,544,309 2-1/2 years later, 14,342,884,944,996. That's 3.717 TRILLION in 2-1/2 years........... And you try and say if we just give him more MONEY? Sorry, take it out of YOUR pocket, mines almost empty.
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Post by dog on Jul 24, 2011 16:37:24 GMT -6
Lets cut to the chase, shall we? Bush takes over, 5,727,776,738,304 and a few pennies. Bush LEAVES, 10,626,877,048,913. Almost 5 TRILLION added in 8 years. Wholly unacceptable, and we EXCORIATED him for it. We get the Messiah. Start 10,625,053,544,309 2-1/2 years later, 14,342,884,944,996. That's 3.717 TRILLION in 2-1/2 years........... And you try and say if we just give him more MONEY? Sorry, take it out of YOUR pocket, mines almost empty. Sniper, Wait, you forgot to factor in the revenue coming into the U.S. Treasury before the "Bush Tax Cuts". the cost of the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the number of people collecting unemployment when "W" was sworn in as POTUS, and the number of people collecting unemployment when "W" left office as POTUS on 1/20/09. WHEN UNEMPLOYMENT INCREASE THE REVENUE TO THE U.S. TREASURY DECREASES. Oh, how about that Real Estate Bubble, the near collapse of the Financial System not only in the U.S. but worldwide. Do you care to explain derivatives to us? I didn't think so, nor will I, hell I do not beleive many people can, even if they deal with them. Sniper, you rage about the the economy not improving, and want to hang the tag around President Obama's Neck as "owning the economy" now. Oh, yeah the Dem's controlled the U.S. Congress right? Well, until Sen. Ted Kennedy (D), Mass. died they did. After that there was an end to the "Filibuster Proof" Senate. Then the "G'No'P" GAME began. The "G'No'P" began their grand scheme to ensure President Obama would not serve a second term. Those TAXPAYERS making less than " ONE MILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR" BE d**nED. The "G'No"P" must protect those "Job Creators", right? You know those making more than a million a year from any tax increases. After all look how many JOBS they created during "W" ' term. You know from the time "W" was inaugurated to the time President Obama was inaugurated. Nah, you might not want to look at that. I must admit I do not blame "W". I blame the entire philosophy of the "G'No'P" and now the "Tea Party" and ANY POLITICIAN who owes their allegiance to Grover Norquist's PLEDGE. If the philosophy of the "G'No'P" had worked, due to the continued "Bush Tax Cuts'', those "Job Creators" should be bringing down the Unemployment Rate after how many years? I wonder why the Unemployment rate increase at all during "W" 's Presidency or continues not to improves as the "JOB CREATORS" still enjoy their 'BENES. What do you think Sniper? g ;D How come when Sniper hits a nerve you go into a rant and try to include a tidbit from just about every argument you have ever tried to make? ;D Dont worry Greek, just keep entertaining us and you will never be with out friends!
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Post by dog on Jul 24, 2011 16:56:34 GMT -6
Sniper, you rage about the the economy not improving, and want to hang the tag around President Obama's Neck as "owning the economy" now. Oh, yeah the Dem's controlled the U.S. Congress right? Well, until Sen. Ted Kennedy (D), Mass. died they did. After that there was an end to the "Filibuster Proof" Senate. Then the "G'No'P" GAME began. I see you are starting to lay the groundwork for a future argument on why President Obama wasnt able to fix the economy. ;D
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Post by greekgod on Jul 24, 2011 17:51:13 GMT -6
Sniper, Wait, you forgot to factor in the revenue coming into the U.S. Treasury before the "Bush Tax Cuts". the cost of the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the number of people collecting unemployment when "W" was sworn in as POTUS, and the number of people collecting unemployment when "W" left office as POTUS on 1/20/09. WHEN UNEMPLOYMENT INCREASE THE REVENUE TO THE U.S. TREASURY DECREASES. Oh, how about that Real Estate Bubble, the near collapse of the Financial System not only in the U.S. but worldwide. Do you care to explain derivatives to us? I didn't think so, nor will I, hell I do not beleive many people can, even if they deal with them. Sniper, you rage about the the economy not improving, and want to hang the tag around President Obama's Neck as "owning the economy" now. Oh, yeah the Dem's controlled the U.S. Congress right? Well, until Sen. Ted Kennedy (D), Mass. died they did. After that there was an end to the "Filibuster Proof" Senate. Then the "G'No'P" GAME began. The "G'No'P" began their grand scheme to ensure President Obama would not serve a second term. Those TAXPAYERS making less than " ONE MILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR" BE d**nED. The "G'No"P" must protect those "Job Creators", right? You know those making more than a million a year from any tax increases. After all look how many JOBS they created during "W" ' term. You know from the time "W" was inaugurated to the time President Obama was inaugurated. Nah, you might not want to look at that. I must admit I do not blame "W". I blame the entire philosophy of the "G'No'P" and now the "Tea Party" and ANY POLITICIAN who owes their allegiance to Grover Norquist's PLEDGE. If the philosophy of the "G'No'P" had worked, due to the continued "Bush Tax Cuts'', those "Job Creators" should be bringing down the Unemployment Rate after how many years? I wonder why the Unemployment rate increase at all during "W" 's Presidency or continues not to improves as the "JOB CREATORS" still enjoy their 'BENES. What do you think Sniper? g ;D How come when Sniper hits a nerve you go into a rant and try to include a tidbit from just about every argument you have ever tried to make? ;D Dont worry Greek, just keep entertaining us and you will never be with out friends! dog, You offer interference and no answers. Let's read Sniper's answer's. Did I hit a "nerve" you could not answer. I await a "GO TO THIS LINK" reply, or "Copy and Paste job", from all those supporting the "G'No'P", and interestingly I read very few who support the "G'No"P". I don't believe Sniper does, nor does Butterbean, JimmyB, Katydid, .............. Do you support the "G'No'P" dog? Would you ever support a Presidential Candidate that has not Signed the Grover Norquist Pledge? I eagerly await your reply on this question. How about the other Pledges the Conservative Members of Congress and the Conservative State Officials have signed? To whom do the Conservatives owe their loyalty dog? Do you have a Pledge you want them to sign to ensure your vote? Bet they will! g ;D
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Post by greekgod on Jul 24, 2011 17:53:29 GMT -6
Sniper, you rage about the the economy not improving, and want to hang the tag around President Obama's Neck as "owning the economy" now. Oh, yeah the Dem's controlled the U.S. Congress right? Well, until Sen. Ted Kennedy (D), Mass. died they did. After that there was an end to the "Filibuster Proof" Senate. Then the "G'No'P" GAME began. I see you are starting to lay the groundwork for a future argument on why President Obama wasnt able to fix the economy. ;D dog, I see you are still Sniper's "lap dog". g
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on Jul 24, 2011 18:30:54 GMT -6
dog, You offer interference and no answers. Let's read Sniper's answer's. Did I hit a "nerve" you could not answer. I await a "GO TO THIS LINK" reply, or "Copy and Paste job", from all those supporting the "G'No'P", and interestingly I read very few who support the "G'No"P". I don't believe Sniper does, nor does Butterbean, JimmyB, Katydid, .............. Do you support the "G'No'P" dog? Would you ever support a Presidential Candidate that has not Signed the Grover Norquist Pledge? I eagerly await your reply on this question. How about the other Pledges the Conservative Members of Congress and the Conservative State Officials have signed? To whom do the Conservatives owe their loyalty dog? Do you have a Pledge you want them to sign to ensure your vote? Bet they will! g ;D Look, either you are stupid or dishonest, and I don't have time to try and pound it through your thick skull. THERE ISN'T ANY MONEY LEFT. Not for Republicans, or Democrats. Any form of Government that does not reduce spending to match income is simply mental masturbation. There is a 100 TRILLION Dollar forward obligation that NONE of you will address. So lets cut the crap about signing pledges and figure out how we will SURVIVE what is coming at an ever increasing pace. Grandma is screwed, I am screwed, you Greek are screwed, and worst of all, there are MILLIONS of US Citizens who haven't the faintest idea how to get supper tomorrow night, much less figure out how to stay warm in the winter. Oh yea, before you fantasize about how raising taxes will make things work, SHOW US WHERE MORE MONEY FLOWED INTO THE d**n GOVERNMENT WHEN TAX RATES WERE HIGHER. Anything else is the above mentioned mental masturbation. IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND?
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Post by dog on Jul 24, 2011 18:52:28 GMT -6
How come when Sniper hits a nerve you go into a rant and try to include a tidbit from just about every argument you have ever tried to make? ;D Dont worry Greek, just keep entertaining us and you will never be with out friends! dog, You offer interference and no answers. Let's read Sniper's answer's. Did I hit a "nerve" you could not answer. I await a "GO TO THIS LINK" reply, or "Copy and Paste job", from all those supporting the "G'No'P", and interestingly I read very few who support the "G'No"P". I don't believe Sniper does, nor does Butterbean, JimmyB, Katydid, .............. Do you support the "G'No'P" dog? Would you ever support a Presidential Candidate that has not Signed the Grover Norquist Pledge? I eagerly await your reply on this question. How about the other Pledges the Conservative Members of Congress and the Conservative State Officials have signed? To whom do the Conservatives owe their loyalty dog? Do you have a Pledge you want them to sign to ensure your vote? Bet they will! g ;D Sniper would be one of the last persons I would have to run interference for. Sniper is right, we dont have time for your games.
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Post by greekgod on Jul 24, 2011 20:10:02 GMT -6
dog, You offer interference and no answers. Let's read Sniper's answer's. Did I hit a "nerve" you could not answer. I await a "GO TO THIS LINK" reply, or "Copy and Paste job", from all those supporting the "G'No'P", and interestingly I read very few who support the "G'No"P". I don't believe Sniper does, nor does Butterbean, JimmyB, Katydid, .............. Do you support the "G'No'P" dog? Would you ever support a Presidential Candidate that has not Signed the Grover Norquist Pledge? I eagerly await your reply on this question. How about the other Pledges the Conservative Members of Congress and the Conservative State Officials have signed? To whom do the Conservatives owe their loyalty dog? Do you have a Pledge you want them to sign to ensure your vote? Bet they will! g ;D Sniper would be one of the last persons I would have to run interference for. Sniper is right, we dont have time for your games. dog, Then don't un interference for Sniper, as you always do. Oh, dog, and our country does not have time for the "G'No'P" and the "tea party" Grover Norquist "PLEDGERS" to continue to play their games. g ;D
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Post by dog on Jul 24, 2011 20:23:11 GMT -6
Sniper would be one of the last persons I would have to run interference for. Sniper is right, we dont have time for your games. dog, Then don't un interference for Sniper, as you always do. Oh, dog, and our country does not have time for the "G'No'P" and the "tea party" Grover Norquist "PLEDGERS" to continue to play their games. g ;D I guess you should have ran better candidates against them. Candidates that were more in line with your beliefs.
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Post by greekgod on Jul 24, 2011 20:51:44 GMT -6
dog, You offer interference and no answers. Let's read Sniper's answer's. Did I hit a "nerve" you could not answer. I await a "GO TO THIS LINK" reply, or "Copy and Paste job", from all those supporting the "G'No'P", and interestingly I read very few who support the "G'No"P". I don't believe Sniper does, nor does Butterbean, JimmyB, Katydid, .............. Do you support the "G'No'P" dog? Would you ever support a Presidential Candidate that has not Signed the Grover Norquist Pledge? I eagerly await your reply on this question. How about the other Pledges the Conservative Members of Congress and the Conservative State Officials have signed? To whom do the Conservatives owe their loyalty dog? Do you have a Pledge you want them to sign to ensure your vote? Bet they will! g ;D Look, either you are stupid or dishonest, and I don't have time to try and pound it through your thick skull. THERE ISN'T ANY MONEY LEFT. Not for Republicans, or Democrats. Any form of Government that does not reduce spending to match income is simply mental masturbation. There is a 100 TRILLION Dollar forward obligation that NONE of you will address. So lets cut the crap about signing pledges and figure out how we will SURVIVE what is coming at an ever increasing pace. Grandma is screwed, I am screwed, you Greek are screwed, and worst of all, there are MILLIONS of US Citizens who haven't the faintest idea how to get supper tomorrow night, much less figure out how to stay warm in the winter. Oh yea, before you fantasize about how raising taxes will make things work, SHOW US WHERE MORE MONEY FLOWED INTO THE d**n GOVERNMENT WHEN TAX RATES WERE HIGHER. Anything else is the above mentioned mental masturbation. IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND? Sniper, This is not about Money (gold) in the Vault. This is about increasing the U.S. Treasury's Credit Limit. This has never been denied, nor so heatedly debated until President Obama was elected. Yes, Sniper we do need to get our country's fiscal house in order. That includes both reductions in spending and increases in revenue. Obama has "touched the third rail" and offered to make adjustments in SS and Medicare, creating dissension in the Democratic Party. The Norquist Pledgers on the "Republican" side of the isle, cannot even have the guts to let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, even if only in the American Households making more than $1 Million. Oh the pain those Millionaire and Billionaires would suffer! As I've stated in the past Sniper, I'm not adverse to delaying retirement age to qualify for S.S., are you? I'm not adverse to have a Means test to qualify for S.S., are you? I can live without it. If S.S. checks stop tomorrow, and Medicare (SSI) is eliminated tomorrow, would that reduce the National debt enough to satisfy you and the "Job Creators" so they will actually invest in American jobs paying a "livable wage". The answer of course is a resounding "HELL NO"! Oh, and to answer your last question " Where did more money ''FLOWED INTO THE d**n GOVERNMENT WHEN TAXES WERE HIGHER?" the answer is obviously............................ ding, ding, ding........... ANYTIME the taxes were higher. Our Country has a Financial Problem and we can't wait for Multimillionaires and Billionaires to start creating jobs. That hasn't happened in 12 years. Hell, lets cut those Millionaires and Billionaires out of receiving SS and Medicare benefits first. g ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2011 22:23:46 GMT -6
Raising the debt ceiling isn't a sign of failure but a sign we need more credit. In this case to pay bills due. Do you borrow more money to pay your bills 4iam? Do you want to see an end to this country?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2011 22:25:38 GMT -6
Thanks for the link. At the end of 2008 we had almost 11 trillion in debt. It had risen from 9.2 trillion at the beginning of '08 to 10.7 trillion at the end of '08. So an increase of about 1.5 trillion. Is that correct? What do we have to show for it?
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Post by freedom12 on Jul 24, 2011 22:39:07 GMT -6
Just have the Fed keep printing more new money.
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Post by dog on Jul 25, 2011 7:22:13 GMT -6
This has never been denied, nor so heatedly debated until President Obama was elected. This has very little do to with Obama being president. It has more to do with Obama happening to be the president at the time when people are saying "enough is enough"
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Post by dog on Jul 25, 2011 7:27:56 GMT -6
Oh, and to answer your last question " Where did more money ''FLOWED INTO THE d**n GOVERNMENT WHEN TAXES WERE HIGHER?" the answer is obviously............................ ding, ding, ding........... ANYTIME the taxes were higher. Its amazing how you conveniently left the word "rate" out of Snipers question and then come up with a ding, ding, ding........smart answer.
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