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Post by Blue Star on May 11, 2015 5:55:11 GMT -6
Yep, especially if you add in the cost of getting that degree........ You turn upside down real quick. BTW, looks like she will get that job, so we will be on soon. Have a friend who works at Braidwood, and She was bringing Home way over $140.000 a year and that was back in the 90s she is a nuclear Engineer. And yea, Her college cost a ton of money. We're talking base pay, not base pay + OT. During that time frame. U-1 was just getting finished, Fuel had just been brought on-site AND U-2 was not yet finished. Lots of OT going on then...
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on May 11, 2015 7:16:52 GMT -6
It is a different time today. When I was growing up in Streator, a number of my friends dropped out of high school to work in Owens, Thatchers, Anthonys, the Brickyard or the Drain Tile. In no time, they were driving nice cars and making nearly as much as their fathers. Some of them were bright enough to have gone to college, but the salaries in the local factories were quite good. Also, most of us knew very few people who had gone to college; and the ones we knew tended to be teachers, doctors or "clergymen." None of those occupations seemed either interesting (teachers or preachers) or within our intellectual grasp. (doctors). At one time, I had aspirations to become a bricklayer. One summer,working as a hodcarrier's stooge helped me to see the light. Saturdays, school "holidays," and summers at the Drain Tile made me really see the light. I became serious about school my final year in high school. In the fullness of time, I realized that growing up in Streator was a major reason why I was able to achieve some degree of success in my line of work. I was a "management" lawyer in labor relations, and most management lawyers tend to be stiff, condescending types from affluent suburbs. Unions have a net work and a data base rivaling the CIA. In no time, most of the unions I dealt with knew that I had held a union "card," and that I came from a union town. There is no way that you can imagine how much my background and early experiences in Streator helped me in my career. Yep, that was when you could afford to work your way through school, which millions of us did. Graduating without debt allowed us to get a leg up, and over time, eventually end up better than we otherwise would. At that same time, factory and construction work was the sole province of the laborer, hot, nasty, many times unsafe, we both couldn't wait to get out of there. A funny thing happened on the way to the forum though, as the Gvt. gave out more student loans, the price of that education skyrocketed, and the jobs that those degree filled became less lucrative because everyone and their brother were now "College Eddycated". The double whammy of student loans and an overabundance of employees is a vicious one, creating a whole class of slaves, who can't discharge their debt ( slick eh? ), and can't demand a decent wage. In the meanwhile, the "laborer" who is doing those hot and nasty jobs now enjoys a relatively safe, clean, and well run factory, and since decades of not filling jobs, has become quite a hot commodity. LOL, College has become the white kids dream of greatness, much like the inner city black dream of being LeBron James.......
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Post by dumdave on May 11, 2015 9:57:59 GMT -6
If I had become a lawyer, there would be only two ways I could succeed and I didn't fit either case. Plus I would have huge student loans and I had my BS w/o a loan. 1) Be a lot smarter than I was. National firms would recruit ME! NOPE. 2) Have a father ready to take you into the family law business.
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Post by chevypower on May 11, 2015 10:53:14 GMT -6
Have a friend who works at Braidwood, and She was bringing Home way over $140.000 a year and that was back in the 90s she is a nuclear Engineer. And yea, Her college cost a ton of money. We're talking base pay, not base pay + OT. During that time frame. U-1 was just getting finished, Fuel had just been brought on-site AND U-2 was not yet finished. Lots of OT going on then... She did make $45.00an hr back then though, roughly around $8,000 a month = 96,000 a year so yes you would be right about that Bluestar.
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on May 11, 2015 11:38:00 GMT -6
Can't an aspiring young Lawyer just hang up a shingle in a small town and practice law? Start their own firm? Don't we have a few of them right here in town that did exactly that? They didn't have 200K plus in a student loan hanging over their head. Good example, Daughter wanted to be a Vet. Without counting the BS, the Doctorate was over 250K by itself. Not too many Bachelors these days under 100K. A Vet. starts out about 65K, how do you support 350K in debt on that?
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Post by northsider on May 11, 2015 11:52:31 GMT -6
I guess you sell a little gold.
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Post by roman on May 11, 2015 13:00:10 GMT -6
Hold on.....I know education IS expensive.....100K for Bachelor's? Is that going the more affordable route of an Associate's first? I know even JR College is expensive now, but those numbers really sound high. I am sure you can spend that much, even more. I just wonder if what you can't spend a lot LESS too. Say for instance if you went to JUCO and commute, and then ISU or NIU, WORK and COMMUTE.....I bet with a little help from Mom and Dad and a good paying job it'd still be doable for a lot of people without taking on nearly that much debt. IVCC is one of the top community colleges in the state. Both ISU and NIU are relatively close. My compute to law school probably took as long as the drive to Dekalb. I have a friend in Streator who started and finished college after her husband was nearly killed on the job. I know she finished up at ISU, but she may have started at IVCC. She taught at SHS for many years. As mentioned by a number of other posters, however, the cost of attending school has gotten to be out of sight. I made enough money working at the Drain Tile during summers and at the breaks between quarters to pay nearly all of my undergraduate costs. There are no "summer jobs" anywhere today that would enable someone to pay their way through college.
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Post by roman on May 11, 2015 13:23:19 GMT -6
Can't an aspiring young Lawyer just hang up a shingle in a small town and practice law? Start their own firm? Don't we have a few of them right here in town that did exactly that? A young lawyer needs a mentor. It is very difficult to become a good lawyer without guidance from experienced lawyers. Most of the successful law firms in LaSalle County have deep family roots. Myers, Berry, O'Conor & Kuzma, Ltd. is a good example. The practice of law has come a long way since Lincoln "rode the circuit." In the 1850s, the Illinois statutes were about the size of a comic book. When I started practicing law, the Illinois statutes filled up two huge books. When I retired, there were three huge statute books. Even more bewildering has been the proliferation of administrative agencies during recent decades. Most of those agencies have a couple of thousand pages of "rules and regulations." Finally, constitutional law has grown immeasurably in the part thirty years. When I started practicing law, my field was called "labor law." Most of the work in the field involved collective bargaining, arbitrations, employee related law suits, and constitutional law issues. Today, my field of law is called "labor and employment law." In my old firm, about half of the lawyers will never even see a union employee. Instead, those lawyers will spent all of their time in some sort of discrimination litigation.
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on May 11, 2015 14:27:05 GMT -6
Hold on.....I know education IS expensive.....100K for Bachelor's? Is that going the more affordable route of an Associate's first? I know even JR College is expensive now, but those numbers really sound high. I am sure you can spend that much, even more. I just wonder if what you can't spend a lot LESS too. Say for instance if you went to JUCO and commute, and then ISU or NIU, WORK and COMMUTE.....I bet with a little help from Mom and Dad and a good paying job it'd still be doable for a lot of people without taking on nearly that much debt. Illinois State University.......... www.cappex.com/colleges/Illinois-State-University/tuition-and-costsYou are at 100K for a bachelors.
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Post by roman on May 11, 2015 18:30:30 GMT -6
Actually Roman, I was thinking of that same firm. Mr. Myers did not come from any established Law background, certainly not multi-generational or any family in the business. I have no idea about the rest of the Partners that started the firm, Mr. Daugherty or Mr. Berry. I believe he just came home as a fresh grad from Notre Dame and started up the firm. Steve' father had a strong business connection to the town. Gene's dad, Park Daugherty, was a lawyer. He lived about a block from me. There have been "Berry" and "O'Conor" lawyers in Streator for well over 80 years.
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on May 11, 2015 19:41:24 GMT -6
Thanks for the Link Sniper. Let's look at that just a little bit. $23,960 in annual costs....but.....nearly half, $9364 is for room and board. Granted, commuting is more difficult and may not be a HUGE savings, but it may shave that down considerably. Going the first 2 years to a JUCO would cut those 2 years of expenditure SIGNIFICANTLY. I bet lots of people/families might still be able to take on JUCO expenses out of pocket with no debt whatsoever. It still costs money, but little enough many individuals or families may not have to borrow to get it done. Get 2 years in without debt and shave the next 2 years down to say....18k/year......not so horrible..... When we went to a career day with my Daughter one day one councilor suggested choosing a Bachelor's that would pay enough to pay for a Master's. Nursing comes to mind. Yes, there are ways to do it cheaper, I guess the point is, why should one HAVE to do that for an Education? We certainly did not, we worked our tails off yes, but the simple fact is, prior to the Gvt. throwing money at it, and the corresponding surge in spending by Universities on monuments to stupidity, people could get their education without driving 80 miles a day or going into hock for 30 years.
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Post by helencrump on May 11, 2015 21:57:29 GMT -6
Going to a Jr college for an Associate often adds a year to your BS. It's set up to get as many semesters out of you as they can. That's working with a counselor at both schools, to make sure classes transfer.
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Post by Blue Star on May 12, 2015 10:09:46 GMT -6
MM, I don't understand why you keep saying JUCO when we have IVCC closer & now they're connected to several Il. Universities TO take classes there!?!?
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Post by northsider on May 12, 2015 10:27:16 GMT -6
JUCO is short for junior college. JJC is Joliet junior college
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Post by dumdave on May 12, 2015 13:37:10 GMT -6
My two closest friends from Streator went to law school and opened up a practice in a small town. Their secretary made more than they did. They moved on to better things and still practised the law.
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