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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 6:16:07 GMT -6
Are the teachers being unreasonable in their demands? Opinions vary, of course. Do the teachers care if the students lose their athletic seasons, etc.? Not enough NOT to strike, evidently.
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Post by roman on Oct 13, 2014 6:26:02 GMT -6
Early in the strike, the union stated that it wanted a 9 percent raise. I handled two strikes for that school district. The union lost big in both strikes. The town has gotten progressively poorer over the years, but the union still believes that the teachers should be paid salaries equal to "other" schools in Lake County. Alas, schools like Barrington and Highland Park are far more wealthy than Waukegan. I cannot understand how a school district could go from being a few million in debt to having a surplus of over thirty million. The board's negotiator's comments can be found at newssun.suntimes.com/2014/10/08/chief-negotiator-school-district-60-speaks/ |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 9:52:41 GMT -6
Early in the strike, the union stated that it wanted a 9 percent raise. I handled two strikes for that school district. The union lost big in both strikes. The town has gotten progressively poorer over the years, but the union still believes that the teachers should be paid salaries equal to "other" schools in Lake County. Alas, schools like Barrington and Highland Park are far more wealthy than Waukegan. I cannot understand how a school district could go from being a few million in debt to having a surplus of over thirty million. The board's negotiator's comments can be found at newssun.suntimes.com/2014/10/08/chief-negotiator-school-district-60-speaks/Thanks for your insights and the link! Soooo...do you think the rather bizarre pay increase demands are just a starting point for the union? Additionally, are the teachers calling the reserves a surplus to enhance their position in the public's eyes? I wouldn't give in to the teachers. Break 'em and set a tone for the rest of the state. |
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Post by roman on Oct 13, 2014 11:13:02 GMT -6
Teacher bargaining is all about trying to win over the public.
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Post by roman on Oct 13, 2014 12:20:48 GMT -6
Although the union got smacked in the strikes I handled, I doubt that there is a teacher still working there who remembers those strikes. In the last strike, one board member had a stroke and a couple of others were emotionally exhausted. The local lawyer, the superintendent and I cooked up a way to get before a judge. In short, we filed an injunction contending that the Illinois Educational Act's granting of the right to strike was unconstitutional. We argued that the Illinois Supreme Court, in the Pana case, had held that teacher strikes violated the state constitution. Because a law cannot contravene the constitution, the law had to be unconstitutional.
We did not want to win the case; we simply wanted to get in court and have the court suggest arbitration. To our surprise, the judge seemed to be buying our argument. The union lawyer starting sputtering and said "[w]e offered to go to arbitration... ." At this point, I said: "Judge we will agree to go to arbitration." The union lawyer said that they no longer wanted to go to arbitration. (He knew that the board was on the ropes.) After a couple of hours of discussions in the judge's chambers, we agreed to go to arbitration following the recently enacted procedure in the law which covered cops and fire fighters.
The arbitration was "either/ or" arbitration. In other words, the arbitrator could not split the difference. We used one of the best arbitrators in the country, Jim Stern from the University of Wisconsin. Before we appeared in court, I had researched Stern's past awards and found that he permitted the use of the comparisons of school districts hundreds of miles a part. During the week long hearing, the union tried to compare Waukegan to rich districts in Lake County. We used districts like Decatur and Rockford.
We won every issue. For many years after, negotiations were peaceful.
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on Oct 13, 2014 15:32:17 GMT -6
The arbitration was "either/ or" arbitration. In other words, the arbitrator could not split the difference. We used one of the best arbitrators in the country, Jim Stern from the University of Wisconsin. Before we appeared in court, I had researched Stern's past awards and found that he permitted the use of the comparisons of school districts hundreds of miles a part. During the week long hearing, the union tried to compare Waukegan to rich districts in Lake County. We used districts like Decatur and Rockford. We won every issue. For many years after, negotiations were peaceful. Golly, you mean owning them calmed them down? A novel approach in these times, wonder if it would work on ISIS or say, the US Border? ( Rhetorical question, normal folks know the answer ) |
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Post by roman on Oct 13, 2014 18:28:32 GMT -6
Well Sniper, the peace lasted a long time. After bargaining for the school district for around 12 years, they found that they didn't need me at the table after the last strike. The administrators handled the bargaining for many years. After the strike, I played an advisory role only. The union had lost its steam.
During the years I represented the district, I saw a serious decline in the town. Loss of heavy industry had a major impact on the town, think Owens, Thatchers and Anthonys. The companies Waukegan lost employed far more people than Streator's former "big three."
Today, 70 percent of the town is either Hispanic or Black.
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Post by job on Oct 16, 2014 5:18:33 GMT -6
Well Sniper, the peace lasted a long time. After bargaining for the school district for around 12 years, they found that they didn't need me at the table after the last strike. The administrators handled the bargaining for many years. After the strike, I played an advisory role only. The union had lost its steam. During the years I represented the district, I saw a serious decline in the town. Loss of heavy industry had a major impact on the town, think Owens, Thatchers and Anthonys. The companies Waukegan lost employed far more people than Streator's former "big three." Today, 70 percent of the town is either Hispanic or Black. |
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Post by job on Oct 16, 2014 5:19:10 GMT -6
I smell a board which is going to fold.
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Post by job on Oct 16, 2014 8:22:14 GMT -6
Most boards today do not dock teachers for striking. In the 15 strikes I handled, the teachers lost money. We would use the "emergency days" to buffer the strike. It might not cover all of the strikes days, but it still would cost them. In a couple of cases, they teachers gave up their personal days. If teachers do not lose something by striking, they will do it again.
It is still far different from the private sector where strikers really lose money.
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Post by roman on Oct 16, 2014 9:30:38 GMT -6
Or their livelihood. I was reading a book by a local author about the Illinois Valley back in the 50's. It mentioned a lot of various crippling strikes including some national coal miners strikes in the early 50's. It was during the Winter months of course and back when nearly everyone still heated with coal or oil. It talked about Hospitals and Schools running perilously low on coal for heating. I am not sure what it has to do with a Teacher's strike other than it makes for an interesting perspective. I think it also illustrates a little bit better the dialog I have had with Butterbean at times about the relative value of nearly all jobs. Teachers ARE important, but the jobs most people perform are important. We can't afford to pay everyone what they might think they are worth just because they say so. Everyone's job is important. I have a good friend who lives in Streator. He worked for Cat for most of his adult life. He once told me that he added up the number of day/months he was on strike and found that he had been on strike for nearly five years. He drove a truck during those strikes, but he still must have lost a bundle of money. I still remember the strike where the company put an add in the paper for permanent replacements. The strike quickly ended. One striker summed it up in a comment to the Peoria paper: "I hate that people have to see us returning to work puking on our T shirts." |
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Post by father of two on Oct 16, 2014 16:04:47 GMT -6
The biggest difference is in a teachers strike, no matter how long it lasts, the employees lose no wages. School has to be in session 180 days. If a strike lasts 50 days you make those days up by giving up extended breaks and summer vacation is shorter. During the time of the strike everyone is affected. Parents that work now need someone to watch their kids, employees go without wages making their lives difficult and admin and board members take a hit for causing a strike or not settling. The community suffers because it causes a lot of animosity among all people. A strike is never a good thing.
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Post by roman on Oct 16, 2014 17:13:09 GMT -6
The biggest difference is in a teachers strike, no matter how long it lasts, the employees lose no wages. School has to be in session 180 days. If a strike lasts 50 days you make those days up by giving up extended breaks and summer vacation is shorter. During the time of the strike everyone is affected. Parents that work now need someone to watch their kids, employees go without wages making their lives difficult and admin and board members take a hit for causing a strike or not settling. The community suffers because it causes a lot of animosity among all people. A strike is never a good thing. I hate to disagree with a long-time grade school board member, but the School Code requires school districts to adopt a school year which provides for 176 days of actual student attendance. The board may schedule up to four days of "teacher education" days. However, the key language in the law is the requirement that the board adopt a school year of at least 185 days to ensure the foregoing. The five extra days are the days I referred to a previous post. Although there is no provision in the law requiring schools to abate those five "extra" days, most schools do. www.iasb.com/pdf/cal_1415.pdf |
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Post by father of two on Oct 16, 2014 17:26:55 GMT -6
Ok, corrected, they get paid for 180 days.
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Post by roman on Oct 16, 2014 17:42:44 GMT -6
Ok, corrected, they get paid for 180 days. In fact, they are legally required to work 185 days. |
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