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Post by dog on Oct 29, 2014 18:51:06 GMT -6
I don't think Greek was trying to associate me with his disapprovals: "Sniper, I'm certain most business owners in Streator have donated to the United Way, the Salvation Army, paid dues to Civic Organizations, donated to local sports teams, rang bells, delivered baskets, and donated time to coach, referee, etc. I know I have, I bet dog has." Greek was responding to Snipers comments about Greeks "business". All Greek has said that he donates to different organizations, and he "bets" I do too. I know I have donated, and I bet Greek has too. I asked you about the circumstances of your food drive, you explained it, that's good enough for me. Well, I just think it is a shame that anyone would attack someone for how they give to the community. Do you think seeing someone being ridiculed for trying to do good encourages more people to want to try to give back? Nope
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Post by dog on Oct 29, 2014 18:54:20 GMT -6
Lets expand on this thought a little. When I read your post a couple posts ago, I got the impression that you were picking on out of town business owners. Now after reading this, it sounds like you think that since they don't have the voting capability to change things, they are not well represented and disadvantaged when it comes to running their business properly in Streator. Could you elaborate a little more on your thoughts concerning this? What is there to elaborate on? Business owners who do not live in the City limits do not get to vote for the leaders who enact ordinances and policies that directly affect their business. I don't feel they are represented on local issues. That is just the way it is. Like I said you are right, they dont get to vote for the leaders. But they arent stopped from going to council meetings to ask for things to be changed to benefit their businesses are they? Are they prohibited from asking for a zoning change? They cant go in front of the council and ask for the laws to be enforced, just like you do?
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Post by dog on Oct 29, 2014 19:03:47 GMT -6
I hope the city doesn't waste any taxpayer money on it, not because I think that the major reason it wouldn't be successful is because people would prefer a modern theater, but because of many other reasons that I have listed before all add up to having an unsuccessful business. You ran the business at the Majestic, how many people did you have to have per showing to break even? How many people did you actually have? How many people do you think you lost due to bar violence, due to not having certain movies, due to only having 2 screens to choose from, etc. I don't think I ever argued with you that issues from the bar didnt cost you a customer or two, but to focus on the city and suggest they are the sole reason for the demise of the Majestic is just not realistic. A customer or two? Do you think I would be so worried about it if I thought it was just a customer or two? I wouldn't be able to tell you how many people the bar violence keeps away, but I am very confident that it is many. It would be interesting to see the results of an independent survey to see how people in Streator and also surrounding areas feel about bringing their families to downtown Streator particularly at night when a movie theatre is trying to do business. I have been attacked for merely asking that the problems keeping people away be corrected. We are talking about activities that are against our existing laws. What would be so wrong with cleaning these things up? Do you really not think that more people might be more willing to support a unique family business like the Majestic if the numbers were reduced? You must have number in mind for you to be so passionate about it. How many do you think, 10? 100? 1000? You havent been attacked for asking that the problems should be corrected. Yes, these activities are against the law. Nothing would be wrong with cleaning these things up. Yes, more people would probably be willing to support the Majestic. What you have been attacked for is the significance you place on these problems as a cause for the decline business downtown.You are attacked because you attack those of us that dont share your belief of how much priority these problems should receive. And yet you cant give me a reason why Ace Hardware and the Candy Store, which are right next to the bar, havent folded up because of excessive bar problems.
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Post by dumdave on Oct 30, 2014 10:05:39 GMT -6
bump Have at it guys.
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 31, 2014 11:49:48 GMT -6
What is there to elaborate on? Business owners who do not live in the City limits do not get to vote for the leaders who enact ordinances and policies that directly affect their business. I don't feel they are represented on local issues. That is just the way it is. Like I said you are right, they dont get to vote for the leaders. But they arent stopped from going to council meetings to ask for things to be changed to benefit their businesses are they? Are they prohibited from asking for a zoning change? They cant go in front of the council and ask for the laws to be enforced, just like you do? Sure, they can ask, but since they typically just ignore requests and do not take action to correct the problems, it doesn't do much good. Our City's uninviting attitude towards business is a problem, in my opinion. From my experience, being able to have a voice at election time could be much more productive in creating the change needed.
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 31, 2014 11:55:36 GMT -6
A customer or two? Do you think I would be so worried about it if I thought it was just a customer or two? I wouldn't be able to tell you how many people the bar violence keeps away, but I am very confident that it is many. It would be interesting to see the results of an independent survey to see how people in Streator and also surrounding areas feel about bringing their families to downtown Streator particularly at night when a movie theatre is trying to do business. I have been attacked for merely asking that the problems keeping people away be corrected. We are talking about activities that are against our existing laws. What would be so wrong with cleaning these things up? Do you really not think that more people might be more willing to support a unique family business like the Majestic if the numbers were reduced? You must have number in mind for you to be so passionate about it. How many do you think, 10? 100? 1000? You havent been attacked for asking that the problems should be corrected. Yes, these activities are against the law. Nothing would be wrong with cleaning these things up. Yes, more people would probably be willing to support the Majestic. What you have been attacked for is the significance you place on these problems as a cause for the decline business downtown.You are attacked because you attack those of us that dont share your belief of how much priority these problems should receive. And yet you cant give me a reason why Ace Hardware and the Candy Store, which are right next to the bar, havent folded up because of excessive bar problems. I believe that the number of people from Streator and surrounding communities who are unwilling to bring their families downtown, particularly at night, due the he rough reputation that is supported by the on-going bar violence, is in the thousands. How could you possibly know the motivations behind every attack against me? Why should you get to decide how much significance I should be able to place on these problems? How is my putting more significance on it a reason for anyone to attack me? I don't believe that I have attacked anyone who didn't attack me first, calling me illegal, uneducated, lacking any business sense, mentally ill, a synonym for a cat, etc.. I am very confident that I didn't attack anyone for simply not sharing my belief of how much priority these problems should receive. Is it your extensive business education that makes you think that you know my motivations better than I do? You want me to explain why other stores haven't closed up? Really? Why, do all of the stores in Streator have to close before you will recognize that the problems here that should be addressed? Do you think the candy shop is doing great business? I don't see many people coming and going there and typically not families, but I imagine considering that they own their building and rent to another business that their overhead is relatively low. I notice that it is not open all the time. if it were making good money, I would think it would be worth while to hire an employee to run it other times. You admit that more people would be willing to support the Majestic if these problems were addressed, wouldn't it also help have more people support the candy shop too? Is Ace really a place that expects to get a majority of its business from attracting families to their store? Are they making as much money as they possibly could? I hardly ever see lines at all four registers. Couldn't they possibly hire a few more employees and have later hours if more people weren't reluctant to come to our downtown? I really don't think that just because there are some businesses that haven't folded is justification for allowing illegal activities to go on that obviously do hurt businesses and certainly not a reason to attack someone for wanting the problems addressed. JMHIO
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Post by mommytoo4 on Oct 31, 2014 12:49:14 GMT -6
You must have number in mind for you to be so passionate about it. How many do you think, 10? 100? 1000? You havent been attacked for asking that the problems should be corrected. Yes, these activities are against the law. Nothing would be wrong with cleaning these things up. Yes, more people would probably be willing to support the Majestic. What you have been attacked for is the significance you place on these problems as a cause for the decline business downtown.You are attacked because you attack those of us that dont share your belief of how much priority these problems should receive. And yet you cant give me a reason why Ace Hardware and the Candy Store, which are right next to the bar, havent folded up because of excessive bar problems. I believe that the number of people from Streator and surrounding communities who are unwilling to bring their families downtown, particularly at night, due the he rough reputation that is supported by the on-going bar violence, is in the thousands. How could you possibly know the motivations behind every attack against me? Why should you get to decide how much significance I should be able to place on these problems? How is my putting more significance on it a reason for anyone to attack me? I don't believe that I have attacked anyone who didn't attack me first, calling me illegal, uneducated, lacking any business sense, mentally ill, a synonym for a cat, etc.. I am very confident that I didn't attack anyone for simply not sharing my belief of how much priority these problems should receive. Is it your extensive business education that makes you think that you know my motivations better than I do? You want me to explain why other stores haven't closed up? Really? Why, do all of the stores in Streator have to close before you will recognize that the problems here that should be addressed? Do you think the candy shop is doing great business? I don't see many people coming and going there and typically not families, but I imagine considering that they own their building and rent to another business that their overhead is relatively low. I notice that it is not open all the time. if it were making good money, I would think it would be worth while to hire an employee to run it other times. You admit that more people would be willing to support the Majestic if these problems were addressed, wouldn't it also help have more people support the candy shop too? Is Ace really a place that expects to get a majority of its business from attracting families to their store? Are they making as much money as they possibly could? I hardly ever see lines at all four registers. Couldn't they possibly hire a few more employees and have later hours if more people weren't reluctant to come to our downtown? I really don't think that just because there are some businesses that haven't folded is justification for allowing illegal activities to go on that obviously do hurt businesses and certainly not a reason to attack someone for wanting the problems addressed. JMHIO The thousands? , really, that kind of sounds like my uncles fish stories! Can you read, dog specifically said your complaints are valid it is the significance you place on them, as if all that stopped tomorrow Streator would become a Mecca of downtown businesses, a thriving community that people from all over would flock to. As for not attacking us that is just laughable, anyone of us can be having a perfectly good conversation with you and the minute you feel yourself losing ground you move into your passive-aggressive side and have attacked each and every one of us, just because you don't blantantly become rude doesn't mean it isn't an attack! Maybe you should re-evaluate your confidence level and and re-examine your methods because apparently this isn't working for you. Look at it this way, if you are trying to open a door that says pull by pushing don't you stop and examine what is wrong and try it another way!!!!!
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 31, 2014 14:02:38 GMT -6
I believe that the number of people from Streator and surrounding communities who are unwilling to bring their families downtown, particularly at night, due the he rough reputation that is supported by the on-going bar violence, is in the thousands. How could you possibly know the motivations behind every attack against me? Why should you get to decide how much significance I should be able to place on these problems? How is my putting more significance on it a reason for anyone to attack me? I don't believe that I have attacked anyone who didn't attack me first, calling me illegal, uneducated, lacking any business sense, mentally ill, a synonym for a cat, etc.. I am very confident that I didn't attack anyone for simply not sharing my belief of how much priority these problems should receive. Is it your extensive business education that makes you think that you know my motivations better than I do? You want me to explain why other stores haven't closed up? Really? Why, do all of the stores in Streator have to close before you will recognize that the problems here that should be addressed? Do you think the candy shop is doing great business? I don't see many people coming and going there and typically not families, but I imagine considering that they own their building and rent to another business that their overhead is relatively low. I notice that it is not open all the time. if it were making good money, I would think it would be worth while to hire an employee to run it other times. You admit that more people would be willing to support the Majestic if these problems were addressed, wouldn't it also help have more people support the candy shop too? Is Ace really a place that expects to get a majority of its business from attracting families to their store? Are they making as much money as they possibly could? I hardly ever see lines at all four registers. Couldn't they possibly hire a few more employees and have later hours if more people weren't reluctant to come to our downtown? I really don't think that just because there are some businesses that haven't folded is justification for allowing illegal activities to go on that obviously do hurt businesses and certainly not a reason to attack someone for wanting the problems addressed. JMHIO The thousands? , really, that kind of sounds like my uncles fish stories! Can you read, dog specifically said your complaints are valid it is the significance you place on them, as if all that stopped tomorrow Streator would become a Mecca of downtown businesses, a thriving community that people from all over would flock to. As for not attacking us that is just laughable, anyone of us can be having a perfectly good conversation with you and the minute you feel yourself losing ground you move into your passive-aggressive side and have attacked each and every one of us, just because you don't blantantly become rude doesn't mean it isn't an attack! Maybe you should re-evaluate your confidence level and and re-examine your methods because apparently this isn't working for you. Look at it this way, if you are trying to open a door that says pull by pushing don't you stop and examine what is wrong and try it another way!!!!! Perfect example! I was just stating my opinion as was asked of me and you come back claiming that I am lying and insinuating that I can not read. Yes, I can read, but why should I have to accept that dog gets to determine how much significance I can put on anything? I did not say that if it all stopped tomorrow that Streator would be any kind of mecca. However, I do think that if it were to all stop tomorrow we could start to live down the reputation and business could start doing better. Maybe we could even have a family business like a movie theatre downtown too. Allowing these things to continue to go on year after year certainly hasn't been producing good results, has it? I don't believe that I have gotten into any passive aggressive attack with anyone who hadn't already attacked me. It has basically been the same group of people throughout the years attacking me after I only stated my opinions and stood behind them. You may say that it isn't working for me, but I see more possibility of good changes coming now, than there ever was from years and tears of ignoring these problems. Since I'm still talking about wanting solutions to the problems that I see, it doesn't seem that your years of rude attacks are working for you either. JMHIO
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 31, 2014 14:23:25 GMT -6
Well now thousands could mean a lot of things. It could be as few as 2000. He said thousands(s), so it is plural. But it could mean 100,000, 500,000 on up to 999,999.....one short of a MILLION. WOW...that's a lot. Who needs the Super Bowl or INDY 500? I never knew that is all it was holding us back. I don't think the Chicago Speedway even packs in that kind of a crowd. Here I thought it had something to do with a poor economy, a bankrupt state, entire generations of entitlement programs of people not working anymore, other entertainment options and all sorts of other things. Stupid me, all we have to do is stop some fights, public urination and over serving and they will all come flocking to Streator. Gosh, we had better add on to the Theater, fire up a second popcorn popper and maybe build a few new subdivisions while we are at it. I am sure we will have a housing shortage and an excess of good paying jobs. If we could just stop over serving and all the problems associated with it....... Yes, I am confident that it is at least 2,000. Come on though, are you really trying to make it sound like I was inferring one less than a million? Wouldn't I have said close to a million, or said at least hundreds of thousands, if that was what I meant. I am not going to try to pin it down to a certain number, but it is way more than dog's "customer or two" description. The economy isn't near as bad now as it was five years ago, is it? I was in Earlville (population 1661) to see hundreds of cars be turned away from the filled 550 space drive in. The national average is 2.5 people per vehicle. That tells me thousands of people will go to little Earlville over a single weekend for movies. Go ahead, fire up a second popper and expand the theatre, that would be great. It would be nice to see someone else invest a lot into trying to provide Streator motion picture entertainment and see first hand how significant the problems are, like I did. Or was that just you passive aggressive attack against me because I stated my opinion that dog had asked for?
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Post by dog on Oct 31, 2014 14:29:43 GMT -6
Well now thousands could mean a lot of things. It could be as few as 2000. He said thousands(s), so it is plural. But it could mean 100,000, 500,000 on up to 999,999.....one short of a MILLION. WOW...that's a lot. Who needs the Super Bowl or INDY 500? I never knew that is all it was holding us back. I don't think the Chicago Speedway even packs in that kind of a crowd. Here I thought it had something to do with a poor economy, a bankrupt state, entire generations of entitlement programs of people not working anymore, other entertainment options and all sorts of other things. Stupid me, all we have to do is stop some fights, public urination and over serving and they will all come flocking to Streator. Gosh, we had better add on to the Theater, fire up a second popcorn popper and maybe build a few new subdivisions while we are at it. I am sure we will have a housing shortage and an excess of good paying jobs. If we could just stop over serving and all the problems associated with it....... Now to keep things in context and in defense of Kyle, it is indeed possible that over the course of years, it could be possible that the Majestic has lost a few thousand customers due to bar fights. I don't really believe it is that much, but that is why I am asking. I am assuming that is what he was talking about. My question to him was in terms of a per nightly or per showing loss. I am willing to guess that it costs them a family or two a night at the most. I deferred to him for answers since he used to run the place. My recollection from going there, was unless it was a major blockbuster, or special event, they were lucky to be filled to 25% of capacity. I was looking for justification for his claims that bar fights were the major cause for the 75% empty seats.
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Post by dog on Oct 31, 2014 14:53:35 GMT -6
The economy isn't near as bad now as it was five years ago, is it? But yet according to an article in the WSJ from Mar 25 of this year, US theater attendance is continuing to decline: "LAS VEGAS—America's moviegoing audience shrank yet again in 2013, and theater owners are considering a radical idea to turn the tide: cutting ticket prices. Well, at least some of the time. A report from the Motion Picture Association of America released Tuesday said that domestic movie box-office sales rose to $10.9 billion last year, from $10.8 billion in 2012. But the increase was the result of higher ticket prices, not attendance. Indeed, the number of tickets sold slipped yet again, this time 1.5% to 1.34 billion from 1.36 billion. That extends a longstanding trend: The number of tickets sold fell nearly 11% between 2004 and 2013, according to the report, while box office revenue increased 17%. With home-entertainment options improving all the time— whether streamed movies and television, video games, or mobile apps—and studios releasing fewer movies, people are less likely to head to their local multiplex." When I read stuff like this, I cant hardly believe that bar problems are the primary and/or significant reason the Majestic closed.
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Post by dog on Oct 31, 2014 15:04:59 GMT -6
Like I said you are right, they dont get to vote for the leaders. But they arent stopped from going to council meetings to ask for things to be changed to benefit their businesses are they? Are they prohibited from asking for a zoning change? They cant go in front of the council and ask for the laws to be enforced, just like you do? Sure, they can ask, but since they typically just ignore requests and do not take action to correct the problems, it doesn't do much good. Our City's uninviting attitude towards business is a problem, in my opinion. From my experience, being able to have a voice at election time could be much more productive in creating the change needed. The city didn't address Walmart's requests and concerns that they asked for?
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Post by dog on Oct 31, 2014 15:38:10 GMT -6
Perfect example! I was just stating my opinion as was asked of me and you come back claiming that I am lying and insinuating that I can not read. Yes, I can read, but why should I have to accept that dog gets to determine how much significance I can put on anything? I don't get to determine how much significance you put on anything. I am only trying point out to you that the majority see the problem, but also feel those problems rate very low in importance.
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Post by dog on Oct 31, 2014 15:45:06 GMT -6
Is Ace really a place that expects to get a majority of its business from attracting families to their store? Are they making as much money as they possibly could? I hardly ever see lines at all four registers. Couldn't they possibly hire a few more employees and have later hours if more people weren't reluctant to come to our downtown? Did the movie theater get a majority of their business from showing G and PG rated movies? You managed the place. What percentage of the shows were family rated, and what were R rated? How did the attendance numbers compare? I don't think it would be cost effective for Ace to be open much later then they are now. We had a hardware store out at Northpoint. They stayed open late and were far away from any bars, and still couldn't make it.
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Oct 31, 2014 18:00:51 GMT -6
As others have mentioned, there may be some of the problems you talk about, but no one sees them with the same depth you seem to. You know how everyone sees them?
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