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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Feb 4, 2014 10:21:44 GMT -6
Having fish live in water tanks feeding off the roots of plants that are growing to be harvested and sold could have been considered manufacturing. Really? Do you know what the word manufacture means? Look up the definition, raising fish and growing plants is not manufacturing. Not that it makes any difference in this discussion, but where did you get that the fish feed off roots? Don't plants need roots to grow? Obviously I need to keep talking about Aquaponcs to make people understand. |
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Post by northsider on Feb 4, 2014 10:33:18 GMT -6
How is the mayor full of crap? From what you say, he gave his opinion on what you presented and directed you to the planning commission for a zoning change. Had you followed his advice which seems to be the proper procedure according to our municipal code, you could have presented a proper, professional business proposal. You could have presented your case as to why and how an aquaponics facility is appropriate in a CBD and that no zoning change should be required. You then would have been given a reason for any determinations that arose from that hearing or hearings.
It sure would be interesting to actually see what the response from the City was.
On a side note, I look at a business like McGrath's as a retailer of seafood. Do they raise the fish they sell on site?
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Feb 4, 2014 11:01:26 GMT -6
How is the mayor full of crap? From what you say, he gave his opinion on what you presented and directed you to the planning commission for a zoning change. Had you followed his advice which seems to be the proper procedure according to our municipal code, you could have presented a proper, professional business proposal. You could have presented your case as to why and how an aquaponics facility is appropriate in a CBD and that no zoning change should be required. You then would have been given a reason for any determinations that arose from that hearing or hearings. It sure would be interesting to actually see what the response from the City was. On a side note, I look at a business like McGrath's as a retailer of seafood. Do they raise the fish they sell on site? In my opinion, you are the one saying he is full of crap by saying that my following what he says should be done, goes against our laws. It was not his opinion, it was the decision of three City administrators, the people that it is recommended to go to to find out what is required for a business. If you can't go to them and get the correct information, then we need change. Does McGrath's have a live lobster tank? I see them in grocery stores other places. Here it would have to be in an industrial zone though because they would be manufacturing lobsters? Maybe it is that backwards thinking that has created so many vacancies here. Applying for industrial zoning for Aquaponics is not the proper procedure according to our zoning ordinance. Applying for industrial zoning on Main St. would be ridiculous and irresponsible. Wouldn't sending me to Planning and Zoning for a Special Use permit have followed our laws and gotten similar results? I would have not had a problem with that. Why go with the ridiculously extreme requirement that goes against our laws? When I asked for justification of their decision, why wouldn't they have sent me to Planning & Zoning then? Obviously they did not want this business to exist and prefer a vacant building over it. Keep the buildings vacant so they can buy them up cheap. |
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Feb 4, 2014 12:01:20 GMT -6
Maybe the Mayor or city or whatever didn't have a real good grasp on what you wanted exactly and acted hastily without weighing everything like they would in a formal request. Neither party is blameless. We all make mistakes, but not all of us that make mistakes try to hold the other party completely to blame and do it so publicly. Hastily? It took them several months to give me the information I asked for. I kept asking the Mayor if he needed more information, he said no. If he doesn't have a grasp on business or our ordinances, that is not my fault. I've admitted my mistake of going to the City. The Mayor coming out in the paper putting all the blame on business owners, saying that they don't do the exact thing that I did and not admitting that the City could start doing things differently, does not sit well with me and makes me want to point out even more how wrong it is that they do not follow our laws. Now the suggestion of them purchasing properties that they work to keep vacant also points out to me how wrong it is for them to give out requirements that go against our laws. The way they treat businesses is wrong and I believe, a main reason we have so many vacancies. I feel they need to start doing things differently. Until I start seeing that, expect me to keep pointing it out publicly. |
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Post by northsider on Feb 4, 2014 12:53:01 GMT -6
Your mistake was not the fact that you went to the City, your mistake was that you didn't really know what you were doing. You still seem incapable of understanding this fact. The City probably could have been more accommodating in directing you in the correct direction but I would imagine that after repeatedly being called corrupt by you they weren't in much of a mood to be overly helpful.
It seems to me that the biggest mistake in this whole process was made by the investor who decided to make you point man for his project. A more knowledgable, less abrasive businessman may well have gotten the project off of the ground.
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Feb 4, 2014 15:47:50 GMT -6
Your mistake was not the fact that you went to the City, your mistake was that you didn't really know what you were doing. You still seem incapable of understanding this fact. The City probably could have been more accommodating in directing you in the correct direction but I would imagine that after repeatedly being called corrupt by you they weren't in much of a mood to be overly helpful. It seems to me that the biggest mistake in this whole process was made by the investor who decided to make you point man for his project. A more knowledgable, less abrasive businessman may well have gotten the project off of the ground. That is really funny. Are you seriously claiming that they gave me the wrong information because they knew that I would later call them corrupt for providing that wrong information? You don't think that I called them corrupt for providing the wrong information before they provided it, do you? Are you just grasping at straws again? No wonder you stick up for them, you are as ridiculous as they are. You may like to know that I did not start talking about corrupt until after they refused to provide any justification for their ridiculous decision, which also happens to be long after they had publicly declared me illegal, when I was not. Did you know that Illinois Municipal Tort Immunity Law keeps me from being able to do anything about being publicly declared illegal when I am not? However, it doesn't work they other way around. If I say something about them that is not true, there is nothing keeping them from getting their legal team all over me. Of course then they would have to come up with a way that the industrial zoning requirement actually follows our laws, which they can't. I admit that I may not be the most knowledgeable businessman there is, but isn't it a shame that someone that may have questions can't rely on going to City Hall to get the correct information? Maybe the suggestion of an entrepreneurial program should be taken out of the Downtown Plan since they don't want to give out the correct information and it takes such a very knowledgeable businessmen that doesn't need any questions answered by City Hall to get a business off the ground here? With all the resources they have at their disposal, the way that they call business owners illegal, they give out whatever requirements they want regardless of our laws, blame business owners, etc., it is funny that you think one individual voter asking that things be done differently is too abrasive towards them. Our poor City, you are starting to make me feel sorry for them too... ...not! |
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Post by northsider on Feb 4, 2014 16:50:49 GMT -6
I wouldn't say I'm sticking up for the City but rather pointing out how you are wrong. What's really funny is how you fail to see that it was you who didn't follow the laws but continue to rant that it was the city not following them. It seems from what you've said on here that the City could have been more helpful but in your case they weren't. I don't know if that is how every business person is treated but I'm guessing not. People tend to get treated they way they treat others. Again, it would be nice to see the cities response to you but for whatever reason you don't seem to want to share. Wonder why? As for being called illegal.......really?  What would you want to do? What harm was caused other than getting your feelings hurt? Other people live downtown just like you so I'm assuming they were being declared illegal too. I wonder why they aren't whining and crying on here. They must have better things to do with their time. |
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Feb 4, 2014 17:40:41 GMT -6
I wouldn't say I'm sticking up for the City but rather pointing out how you are wrong. What's really funny is how you fail to see that it was you who didn't follow the laws but continue to rant that it was the city not following them. It seems from what you've said on here that the City could have been more helpful but in your case they weren't. I don't know if that is how every business person is treated but I'm guessing not. People tend to get treated they way they treat others. Again, it would be nice to see the cities response to you but for whatever reason you don't seem to want to share. Wonder why? As for being called illegal.......really? What would you want to do? What harm was caused other than getting your feelings hurt? Other people live downtown just like you so I'm assuming they were being declared illegal too. I wonder why they aren't whining and crying on here. They must have better things to do with their time. I followed our laws. I didn't make up the industrial zoning requirement that they gave, but doesn't follow our laws. Publicly declaring business people illegal hurts their credibility with the public they need support from, hurts their business, is just wrong, and just should not be done by a City that hasn't even read the ordinance. I don't care what other people think of it, I'll spend my time trying to convince people how bad we need change. |
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Post by northsider on Feb 4, 2014 17:50:20 GMT -6
Did you request a special use permit since aquaponics is not specifically listed as a permitted use in a CBD zone? You are saying the City didn't follow the law based on your lack of understanding of the law. Any chance we might be seeing that letter anytime soon?
As for the other issues......are you familiar with the term drama queen?
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Feb 4, 2014 21:02:53 GMT -6
Did you request a special use permit since aquaponics is not specifically listed as a permitted use in a CBD zone? You are saying the City didn't follow the law based on your lack of understanding of the law. Any chance we might be seeing that letter anytime soon? As for the other issues......are you familiar with the term drama queen? No, a special use permit would have done no good because they require industrial zoning and only provided the option of zoning change. I am saying that they did not follow our laws based on their, and your, inability to provide any justification for their ridiculously extreme requirement. How many times have I spoken about Aquaponics at Council meetings? Too many for me to remember. At the end of the meetings the City Manager and Mayor have a chance to say whatever they want. I find it interesting that they are very closed lip about Aquaponics. If it were a matter of my not following our laws or not doing it right, why wouldn't they speak up? Isn't that what they would do if they were actually inviting to small business? Face it, they just did not want this business to exist. Why, because I wanted something done about what goes on in our streets? Go ahead, call me a drama queen if it makes you feel better, at least my claims are true, unlike theirs. They call business owners illegal residents and give out requirements that go against our laws then wonder why people say they are not inviting to small business, claiming that is because the businesses don't go to them to see what is required.  |
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Post by father of two on Feb 4, 2014 22:45:46 GMT -6
What is your justification for it being allowed and not considered light industrial? You say it is closest related to greenhouses. How?
Explain to me how aquaponics work. I thought it was plants growing in water with fish living in the water and feeding off nutrients in the water like beta fish. Then the crops are harvested and sold.
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Post by northsider on Feb 5, 2014 5:59:39 GMT -6
I can't help but notice that you respond to everything but the request to see what the City asked for from you. Is there something in the letter you're not sharing with us?
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Feb 5, 2014 7:00:06 GMT -6
The City allows people to continually be over served to the point that they are pulling their pants down and brawling in our streets. They refuse to create an environment conducive to business other than bars. When business owners ask that it be cleaned up, they call them illegal residents and keep them from opening other businesses. Holding an event in City Park to hear candidates ideas to clean it up is not allowed, because they say cleaning up Streator and its image should not be politicized. The Mayor blamess business owners and expresses no plans to change. Obviously we can't count on our current politicians to change the direction our community keeps heading.
Keeping the buildings vacant will enable them to buy them cheaper and create less competition in their real estate business.
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Post by northsider on Feb 5, 2014 7:44:04 GMT -6
This is starting to sound like clucking. I think you might be spending too much time around those chickens!
How about a look at that letter?
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Post by Kyle Mitchell on Feb 5, 2014 8:03:07 GMT -6
This is starting to sound like clucking. I think you might be spending too much time around those chickens! How about a look at that letter? Since you just don't trust me, the letter isn't going to prove anything; I could have generated it in photoshop. I talk publicly about it a lot in the newspaper and at council meetings, our City leaders don't deny that they require industrial zoning. You are no one but an anonymous poster who spews BS like maybe TIF funds were used to devalue a downtown building. I'm certainly not going to post the letter to prove anything to you. Maybe if our City makes more signs come down, devaluing the properties and decreasing the desire for re-use, they can buy them cheaper for their real estate company. |
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What would you want to do? What harm was caused other than getting your feelings hurt? Other people live downtown just like you so I'm assuming they were being declared illegal too. I wonder why they aren't whining and crying on here. They must have better things to do with their time. 