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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on Oct 2, 2013 10:46:06 GMT -6
Kind of mirrors the polling across the country, no?
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Post by greekgod on Oct 2, 2013 17:57:33 GMT -6
JimB, I can't wait to see a link for that source information!Again JimB, The " Joe McCarty's Era" of the "The often repeated LIE", does not make it TRUE. God, Now let me get this straight. You, JimB, state that "even if you can afford the operation yourself ," you will be denied the operation in America", under "Obamacare"? REALLY? Can you give the Forum a source to this MISINFORMATION? You have heard of the "OUTRAGEOUS LIE", haven't you? Humm, wasn't that during "Sen. Joe McCarthy's" Era as well? Give us your source.
g Your hero, Robert Reich: We're going to have to, if you're very old, we're not going to give you all that technology and all those drugs for the last couple of years of your life to keep you maybe going for another couple of months. It's too expensive...so we're going to let you die.
I am going try to reorganize it to be more amenable to treating sick people but that means you, particularly you young people, particularly you young healthy people...you're going to have to pay more. What that means, less innovation and that means less new products and less new drugs on the market which means you are probably not going to live much longer than your parents.
I'll actually give you a speech made up entirely, almost on the spur of the moment, of what a candidate for president would say if that candidate did not care about becoming president. In other words, this is what the truth is and a candidate will never say, but what a candidate should say if we were in the kind of democracy where citizens were honored in terms of their practice of citizenship and they were educated in terms of what the issues were and they could separate myth from reality in terms of what candidates would tell them.
I just gave you the kind of speech that politicians will not give. And I've said a couple of things that although they seem entirely reasonable to me are sacred cows and are therefore politically untouchable. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7Y0TOBuG4Howard Dean: One major problem is the so-called Independent Payment Advisory Board. The IPAB is essentially a health-care rationing body. By setting doctor reimbursement rates for Medicare and determining which procedures and drugs will be covered and at what price, the IPAB will be able to stop certain treatments its members do not favor by simply setting rates to levels where no doctor or hospital will perform them.
There does have to be control of costs in our health-care system. However, rate setting—the essential mechanism of the IPAB—has a 40-year track record of failure. What ends up happening in these schemes (which many states including my home state of Vermont have implemented with virtually no long-term effect on costs) is that patients and physicians get aggravated because bureaucrats in either the private or public sector are making medical decisions without knowing the patients. Most important, once again, these kinds of schemes do not control costs. The medical system simply becomes more bureaucratic.online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324110404578628542498014414.htmlWhat is the IPAB you may ask? Well, its a panel of 15 unelected "advisors" who, aren't even required to have any medical background whatsoever by the way, upon simply submitting a proposal to Congress AUTOMATICALLY becomes law REQUIRING the HHS Sec to IMPLEMENT it. Blocking such blatant authoritarianism can be done ONLY when the Senate and the House and the Prez agree on a SUBSTITUTE and it MUST BE DONE WITHIN 7 MONTHS. It is also COMPLETELY EXEMPT from any and all judicial review. FIFTEEN UNELECTED people who will have unfettered power to tax, appropriate funds and ration care with ABSOLUTELY NO RECOURSE from any average citizen like YOU whatsoever.
Then there is this little gem from the liberal bible the NYT which I'm not going to cite because one has to read it in its entirety and posting the entire article violates the copyright laws. That is if one REALLY has any interest in knowing the truth or if one would rather troll and shout MCCARTHY every other post. www.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/health/lower-health-insurance-premiums-to-come-at-cost-of-fewer-choices.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&katydid, You are the epitome of the "Multiple Lie" tactics of Sen. Joe McCarthy. 1. Robert Reich's post was 3 years prior to the passage of the Affordable Care Act was't it? Times change don't they? 2. I couldn't open your second link. and , 3. Your third link does not even apply to the the Affordable Care Act. Getting access to Health Care where it was not available for you before is not a limitatio is it? g
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Post by rocket on Oct 3, 2013 5:54:28 GMT -6
We don't need obamacare. All is needed is to make health insurance affordable and make it illegal to deny anyone coverage including people with pre-existing medical problems. No mandated ,no penalties. Let the people choose if they want coverage. And make it legal for dr's and hospitals to deny you medical treatment ,if you choose to go uninsured.
This will force people to decide what is more important.
Your life,or choosing to not buy insurance and use the money to buy luxury items such as atv's, dirt bikes,rv's ,a home in the $100,000-$300,000 price range ,boats and fancy cars.
Life is priceless and cannot be replaced.
Common sense would be get yourself health insurance 1st and a priority over anything else.
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on Oct 3, 2013 6:41:00 GMT -6
katydid, You are the epitome of the "Multiple Lie" tactics of Sen. Joe McCarthy. 1. Robert Reich's post was 3 years prior to the passage of the Affordable Care Act was't it? Times change don't they? 2. I couldn't open your second link. and , 3. Your third link does not even apply to the the Affordable Care Act. Getting access to Health Care where it was not available for you before is not a limitatio is it? g 1.) No matter how long before the bill was passed, death panels were death panels. You really aren't foolish enough to believe they just whipped up this 2700 page monstrosity, are you? 2.) You have to click on it....... 3.) Access to Health Care not available? Please do expand.
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Post by longarm on Oct 3, 2013 8:02:23 GMT -6
We don't need obamacare. All is needed is to make health insurance affordable and make it illegal to deny anyone coverage including people with pre-existing medical problems. No mandated ,no penalties. Let the people choose if they want coverage. And make it legal for dr's and hospitals to deny you medical treatment ,if you choose to go uninsured. This will force people to decide what is more important. Your life,or choosing to not buy insurance and use the money to buy luxury items such as atv's, dirt bikes,rv's ,a home in the $100,000-$300,000 price range ,boats and fancy cars. Life is priceless and cannot be replaced. Common sense would be get yourself health insurance 1st and a priority over anything else. Exactly correct.
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Post by northsider on Oct 3, 2013 10:58:12 GMT -6
We don't need obamacare. All is needed is to make health insurance affordable and make it illegal to deny anyone coverage including people with pre-existing medical problems. No mandated ,no penalties. Let the people choose if they want coverage. And make it legal for dr's and hospitals to deny you medical treatment ,if you choose to go uninsured. This will force people to decide what is more important. Your life,or choosing to not buy insurance and use the money to buy luxury items such as atv's, dirt bikes,rv's ,a home in the $100,000-$300,000 price range ,boats and fancy cars. Life is priceless and cannot be replaced. Common sense would be get yourself health insurance 1st and a priority over anything else. Interesting posts. In one sentence you mandate what the insurance companies must do and then the very next sentence you write "No mandated ,no penalties". Seems somewhat hypocritical and lacking in common sense.
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on Oct 3, 2013 11:13:36 GMT -6
MM, check out Concierge Medicine........... Seems to be working just fine, and growing. Much cheaper in most cases than the traditional Insurance program, leaving you only needing Catastrophic care insurance.
Now if we could only get one around here.
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Post by rocket on Oct 3, 2013 15:25:47 GMT -6
No mandated or penalties from the gov't. However force insurance companies to stop denying people coverage from pre-existing conditions and to make it affordable for everyone that wishes to choose to buy insurance
If you wish to spend your money on luxury items instead of health insurance,then that is your choice. I don't think dr's and hospital er's should be forced to treat uninsured people.
That way when you go out and buy your luxury items instead of health insurance coverage,and you have a life threatening situation,you should man up to what you chosen and pay the price.
I will let you in on something I don't think anyone realizes yet.
Medicaid has drastically cut out a lot of stuff that will nolonger be covered. I received a hospital bill with 12 accounts from the er. The patient accountant informed me of the change and I am sending payments in. They stopped covering a lot 4yrs ago and never notified me about it. That's why I have 12 accounts from the hospital dating back to 2009.
I will be glad to be able to buy health insurance to get the coverages I need. And say goodbye to Medicaid.
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Post by northsider on Oct 3, 2013 16:00:20 GMT -6
So you feel it's okay for the government to mandate terms to insurance companies but not to individuals? Aren't you forgetting something.....corporations are people too!
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on Oct 3, 2013 17:00:33 GMT -6
Rocket, the problem is you won't be able to afford that insurance.
The key is to cut the cost, not force people to buy insurance, which paradoxically drives up the cost.
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Post by greekgod on Oct 7, 2013 15:05:15 GMT -6
We don't need obamacare. All is needed is to make health insurance affordable and make it illegal to deny anyone coverage including people with pre-existing medical problems. No mandated ,no penalties. Let the people choose if they want coverage. And make it legal for dr's and hospitals to deny you medical treatment ,if you choose to go uninsured. This will force people to decide what is more important. Your life,or choosing to not buy insurance and use the money to buy luxury items such as atv's, dirt bikes,rv's ,a home in the $100,000-$300,000 price range ,boats and fancy cars. Life is priceless and cannot be replaced. Common sense would be get yourself health insurance 1st and a priority over anything else. Exactly correct.rocket ant longarm, 1. The Affordable Care Act ,"Obamacare", does make Healtcare Affordable. 2. The Affordabe Care Act, "Obamacare" , does PROHIBIT Insurance Companies from excluding those with pre-existing medical conditions. So we can agree that those should be available to all legal U..S. citizens. Right? Question: Then you propose when someone that has not taken advantage of The Affordable Care Act, "Obamacare", you believe we should just have the ambulance sent them to the morgue and let the "family" pay out of pocket for their "loved one's body" to the Funeral Home of their choice. Oh, and by the way, the family is also responsibile for the cost of the Ambulanced Service. I agree. g
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Post by greekgod on Oct 7, 2013 15:11:22 GMT -6
I have not really looked too much at how it will effect me because I have kept hoping it just goes away first. I don't want to be overly negative, but I am highly skeptical. How is it supposed to be universal healthcare? I thought all it does is mandates people to buy insurance or get fined by the government. Isn't this another case of the Dem's being pro-big business as well? To avoid fines by Big Brother, I have decided to form an insurance company. We will have super-low annual premiums(say 20 dollars a year) and uber ultra super-high deductibles of say 100 billion dollars before our coverage kicks in. How does this help you may ask? We never have to pay out, people save money by not getting fined and I(the insurance company) gets filthy stinking rich, 20 bucks at a time. I smell opportunity, who's in? Dan, Have you finished the research on the ACA yet, or do you just HATE it because it happened under Obama's adminstration? g
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on Oct 7, 2013 15:27:27 GMT -6
Greek, I assume you have already enrolled in Obamacare?
You didn't answer earlier when I asked.........
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Post by greekgod on Oct 7, 2013 16:07:29 GMT -6
Greek, I assume you have already enrolled in Obamacare? You didn't answer earlier when I asked......... Sniper, Assume what you wish. Being, self-employed I always paid for my family Health Insurance. How's that for independent? Where we agree, I took out that "catastropic plan" because any other plan was way too costly. You enjoy the benes of what your "Nanny Corporation" offers, and feel threatened if you are dismissed,or you "Nanny Corporation" goes belly up. Whatcha gonna do, when your children reach the age of 18 and your "Nanny Corporation" no longer includes them on your policy? I do not have to face that issue, my children are way beyond that age, and are covered on their own Healthcare Plans. Good Luck as you see the premiums increase, and "Obamacare" is defeated and your 18 year old college Students not only have to pay for their own Healthcare and College Tuition and fees. g
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Post by OutlawwithaSnipeSniper on Oct 7, 2013 20:09:32 GMT -6
Greek you jackoff, as always, you don't have the stones to answer the question, yet you try and bully Longarm about his SS/Medicare, attempting to paint him as a freeloader.
1.) If I were ALLOWED to, I would take a Catastrophic Care plan, none is available. It would be FAR cheaper for me to pay my yearly medical bills as I do anyway ( high deductible ). Alas, the only way I can retain my employment is to take the plan they offer ( they don't even allow employees to opt out ). So, you ended up paying less for your medical expenses than I do, assuming both of us were wise consumers.
2.) I point blank asked you to show me a SINGLE private employer plan that "no longer includes your children at age 18", and you have failed to do so. Let me ease your mind, my plan, PRIOR TO OBAMACARE, carried my kid until age 26, as does any other policy that I know of. I know you keep a tissue handy to wipe the brown off your nose if Obama slows down too rapidly, but you might read how the real world works if you don't want to look incompetent, like your favorite politicians.
3.) And finally, my healthcare premiums are going to rise? Why, you and that idiot in the Whitehouse said they would go down with Obamacare, now WHICH IS IT? ( hint, everyone with an I.Q. above a garden salad knows the answer )
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